not United because they've never sold any merchandise with red devils on it?

seriously are you counting a Christmas tshirt?? It probably took you about 10 minutes to find that, all my man u gear (training tops) (tracksuits) (playing shirts) (hats) none have Red Devils on, it's a nickname the don't often use just like us when we were Salford City reds. If we market the RED DEVILS enough then it'll stick and we can use the name to our advantage.

I agree on this one. Bit pointless pointing out a rare one-off as an example to discredit your argument. A fairer way of doing it would have been to highlight it, but express that it was an exception rather than the norm. However, one-upmanship is strong on forums, so I wouldn't expect a great deal more.

Quote: TheButcher "I agree on this one. Bit pointless pointing out a rare one-off as an example to discredit your argument. A fairer way of doing it would have been to highlight it, but express that it was an exception rather than the norm. However, one-upmanship is strong on forums, so I wouldn't expect a great deal more.'" How about this one? store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/p ... 9&cid=3965 Or this one? store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/p ... 5&cid=3965 Or this one? store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/p ... 0&cid=3970 How many bits of regular, non-festive merchandise do I need to post before I'm discrediting a statement that was obviously nonsense rather than engaging in one-upmanship?

Quote: TheButcher "I agree on this one. Bit pointless pointing out a rare one-off as an example to discredit your argument. A fairer way of doing it would have been to highlight it, but express that it was an exception rather than the norm. However, one-upmanship is strong on forums, so I wouldn't expect a great deal more.'" How about this one? store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/p ... 9&cid=3965 Or this one? store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/p ... 5&cid=3965 Or this one? store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/p ... 0&cid=3970 How many bits of regular, non-festive merchandise do I need to post before I'm discrediting a statement that was obviously nonsense rather than engaging in one-upmanship?

No, it really isn't. The bit where I said "how are you wrong about everything?" probably was and, in fairness, I was being a bit y there. Unnecessary and unfair - sorry Mike. However, if we're not allowed to disprove an argument using actual evidence then what's the point? Let's all go and get our Terry Campese shirts printed up eh? You could easily have taken a minute to look at the United site before playing the self-appointed forum sheriff and throwing sanctimonious, passive-aggressive digs about but chose not to. C'est la vie.

The argument that 'United don't use Red Devils, therefore we can be the best known Red Devils' is plainly untrue. We are never again going to be [ithe[/i Red Devils to the general public - that ship has long since sailed. Whether that means we should drop 'Salford' or not, I honestly have no idea. My gut feeling is that, no, sporting clubs need a sense of place, but I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong.

Evidence is great. Of course it is. But evidence is strongest when you provide plenty of it. I'd be interested to see what the statistical figure for merchandise with and without the Red Devils on it. I'm not that interested or have the time to find out for myself. What you've done is provide some evidence that backs up what you say, just not enough to throw the argument out.

As for the forum Sheriff rant, I find it interesting that you took anything I said to heart. All I did was take up a different position than you and I didn't think I was being offensive in any way. I think you're being a tad sensitive if you think I've been Domineering, sanctimonious, or passive aggressive. I thought you were a little bit of all three of those things towards Mike before I even entered the discussion which, to your credit, you acknowledged.

I suggest chilling a little bit. Have a coffee. Go for a poo.

Then I think maybe we can all be friends again.

I'M NOT going to the Utd range or involving myself in the argument but want to point out that another club having a similar name does not preclude their existing in parallel.
United is a global company, we are a local one. They've publicly acknowkleged the moniker was taken from us. So jump on the coat tails.

If a firm in Korea sells 500 Red Devils' shirts and finds out they're RL shirts

An analogy, imagine Apple had appropriated the Apple moniker from a television manufacturer and never bought it out. I could see aplle TVs having a kudos and marketing position from that even though they were the older firm.

Like it or not, RL is a minority pursuit so use any and every advantage to grow.

NEW year resolution: review the English
My brain is working in predictive text,

I think our owner is trying to entice Man Utd supporters to follow (Salford) Red Devils, by using just the name Red Devils and having our playing shirt red and black, similar to Man U. Would think that the Dr himself designed it. I would love to see some White on it or go right back to original Red, Black and Amber.
I did mention to him at last years November on the road shows, that a few years ago Sheffield produced a shirt which had an Eagle, subtle, filling the full front of their shirt. It was so good that many other clubs fans bought one, now if Salford could produce a shirt with the Devil filling the full front of the shirt it could be quite a winner. But it appears to have fallen on deaf ears, perhaps he knows more than me. He obviously does otherwise I'd be a millionaire.

The point I was making on the other thread was about the wider perception of "red devils". Do people honestly believe that if someone was to stand on Market St in Manchester and ask 100 random people "in local sport, who are the Red Devils?" a majority would say that it's Salford rugby club?

As for that hat on the previous page. One similar (the kids one on the website) came up in conversation yesterday; the comment was that it looks like a snide Man United one off a market stall, one of those that's intended to be for united fans without infringing their trademarks.

Don't get m wrong, I think it was right to change from Salford City Reds to Salford Red Devils, I just don't think the general public are likely to immediately think of us when they read/see/hear the Red Devils being mentioned.

I guess the most likely search engine response would be :-
A football team - ' nearby '
A army Parachute display team
A Belgian National Football Team
A South Korean National Football Team
we would come 5th which is good going for a team who changed its moniker a little over 12 months ago

If you mentioned 'Salford' in terms of sport there wont be much of a shortlist , which is why I cannot understand removal of Salford from Red Devils