After today's shambles of missed forward passes, ignoring of knock-ons and other odd decisions, and having listened to some of the complaints on Radio Manchester I'm sure there will be many calling for Mr Bentham's head (accompanied by his touch judges) -

So I thought it might be interesting to show the actual laws of the game relating to what the ref & touch judges can or can't do.

The reality is that despite the calls from the terrace to "wave that bl....dy flag" the poor touch judge is forbidden to do that except for very specific items -

Here are the rulesSECTION 16

DUTIES OF REFEREE AND TOUCH JUDGES

One Referee 1. In all matches a Referee and two Touch Judges shall Two Touch Judges be appointed or mutually agreed upon by the contesting teams.

Enforce Laws 2. The Referees shall enforce the Laws of the Game and may impose penalties for any deliberate breach of the Laws. He shall be the sole judge on matters of fact except those relating to touch and touch in-goal

Consult Touch Judge. Before giving a decision, it is permissible for the Referee to
consult either or both Touch Judges.

Touch Judge signals. The Touch Judge cannot stop the play for any infringement but he may signal the nature of an infringement if the Referee is unsighted and seeks his guidance.

Signals which may be used by a Touch Judge areTouch. Flag is raised about the head at the point of entry into touch.

Ball Back. Flag waved above head accentuating backward movement.

Touch in-Goal. Flag waved across the body, below the waist, and, with the other hand, point to either the goal line or 20 metre line depending on where play should be restarted. Do not point to the player who made the ball dead.

Successful Kick at Goal. Raise flag above head.

Unsuccessful Kick at Goal. Wave flag across and in front of the body below the waist. If the ball goes over the dead ball line, tap the ground with the end of the flag stick.

Dead Ball Line. Wave flag up and down between shoulder and knee and then point to appropriate restart position.

So there you have it - unless the referee actually asks the touch judge for help the only thing they do is flag "ball in touch" or to indicate foul play if the referee hasn't seen it.

IMHO this is rubbish and the Rubgy League should look at using touch judges to indicate forward passes and offside to assist the referee - It might just improve things, and surely couldn't make it worse than we saw this afternoon.

Do you want a bigger dummy?

Amazing - I try and put a reasoned discussion together and the Yorkshire contingent take it as bad sportsmanship - sorry guys - Did I say Leeds weren't the stronger side overall? Did I say the ref gave them the game? NO!!

But look at the last pass before Leeds last try - it was so far forward that everyone in the ground must have seen it, bar the Ref because of where he was positioned - what I'm arguing for is to allow the other officials to be able to indicate more than they can at the moment

But perhaps intelligent discussion is beyond those on the dark side?

Are you going to blame the ref for Ali passing the ball to Hall for a try when your teams defending and not wrapping him up was the error?

No of course I'm not - did I say I was ?

I'm arguing for a better way to apply the laws of the game

Do you honestly think your last try should have been given?

To be honest, I believe the standards of officials is driving alot of people away from rugby, its just consistently shocking reffing.

I agree. Arent they called referees assistants?

So why can't they assist the referee?

No, the referee made a mistake, as did about seven Salford players afterwards who failed to execute a tackle.

Get over it.

One of them tried today. He came on to report a foul on a Leeds player. The ref ignored him and waved him off. I assume the Salford fans aren't complaining about that incident?

Are you going to blame the ref for Ali passing the ball to Hall for a try when your teams defending and not wrapping him up was the error?
Actually, that's bad defense, the forward pass was the error, why do you try to hide all the bad decisions made from the ref? Just admit he was awful and ruined was could of been a good game, he made bad decisions for both sides and just had no clue and ignored the rules, I mean what did he get the TJ on the pitch for to have a talk with him and then just play on, if something happened bad enough for the TJ to get involved surely it must of been a penalty offense?

He wasn't in my view, you were and are looking for penaltys to cover the cracks of your loss

How am i? All Ive been saying is we didn't deserve to win from the fact we couldn't put more points on the board in the first half and our defense in the second half, I'm just saying the Ref was awful and didn't go by the rules and ruined what could of been a good game, how can you say he wasn't awful?

nice contradiction there

And I'm saying the rules are wrong in respect of what the touch judges are allowed to do.

We all want to see good open flowing rugby - no-one will object to being beaten by a better side - but when you watch blatant refereeing errors THAT COULD EASILY BE AVOIDED - you have to question the way the game is run

Nowhere on here have I criticised Leeds - I notice that Lawrie L hasn't answered the question - should their last try have been awarded if the rules were administered fairly?