I am not a member of Forever Reds because I have always believed that a supporters club should be truly independent.

This doesn't mean that they don't do good work as I know from members that they have raised vital money in the past to pay (it is alleged club bills) and support the academy with defibrillators, accommodation and gym fees.

Having read tonight's evening news I can only hope the acting Chairwoman was misquoted when saying
"we realise mistakes have ]possibly] been made in the past." If this quote is correct than Forever Reds will not be getting any money from me in any collections etc. To me this quite clearly shows a supporters club which is not independent, I also understand that there is some kind of arangemnt with academy player(s) being given lodgings by members within Forever Reds.

Our club is in a mess because of mismanagement (from the Chairman down) and it is up to the independent supporters club to highlight this. Why should we the fans put our hands in our pockets so Forever Reds can give money to the people at the club who got us in to this mess in the first place.

Out of interest how many people are in Forever Reds? I got told its less than 50!

Before you respond with the normal F Off we don't want fans like you! I backed the club last year and bought a 5 year season ticket, so feel free to say I am insane.

Firstly it's not less than 50 members.

Secondly, Forever Reds is accountable to it's members and the FSA, and nobody else. I think that makes it independent. I've not seen the MEN or the piece in question, but I don' think that two people providing lodgings to one young player means that an organisation is not independent.

Well Iain I am a member,so how many members have we got,we have an average crowd of 3,800.I also have not seen
the MEN tonight,but talking to a chap in the pub early doors who had said it was cringe worthy,yes is good that we are
independent,but even I think we have been used has crutch to often, and unlike poor Grufy I did not get a five ticket.

At Leigh we have LISA. The aim of LISA was to soley raise funds to buy players and to pay players contacts. Recently a post was put on our forum - by the chairman of LISA and Leigh board member -asking if anyone could come up with funds for a TV/DVD combo for the club stall on the market, so that it could show our games in an attempt to get peoples attention. One of the members posted that he didn't mind if LISA funds were used, but I said no because that is not what LISA was set up to do. I did contribute some money to the TV though because the club needed it.
Supporters fund raising engines need to have clear an transparent aims and results so that what is happenning on here does not happen at all. We have a diamond, well several diamonds at LISA that make sure that all of us who put their hands in their pockets are kept in the know concerning where the money is going. Without this your organisation will crumble.

I am a current member of the forever reds but I am a little confused.

I too believe the present board including JW have handled the club appallingly over the last few years, however if there are no takers in business it does not matter what supporters organisation raises funds, independent or otherwise. Short-term any money raised through the supporters at best will only get us to the starting blocks, unfortunately with the present board whether we like it or not.
If you want the club to have a chance at Super league level we need to ask ourselves do we want to take this chance in raising enough funds through an organisation I believe, only having the interest of the supporters & the well being of our once great club?

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1) How many members is it? Whist you do not have to make this public, if Forever Reds speaks for the majority of the 4,000 average gate, where is the need to hide the number? If I am a minority then tell me.

2) As to the two people providing lodgings, ]if they receive a payment from the club for this], then I would say that this is not independent of the club as they are on the payroll. If this is the case then to be an independent organisation they should not be in any way on the Forever Reds Committee, and I would hope that they are not.

As to the role of the Forever Reds it has done as I have said previously a lot of good work. But its whole existence shows the state and problems of Salford City Reds. A well run club should not need to ask its supporters to pay for all the things Forever Reds has paid for. Forever Reds was set up a number of years ago to provide short term help for the club after relegation and its still here providing help, and the people getting the help are the ones who have ruined this club. Mr Wilkinson et al know they don't have to find money for example for the academy as Forever Reds will provide because they want the best for the club.

Gruffy you are either Lance Todd or a relation of his using the same keyboard.

Why on earth would you buy a five year season ticket with your views on the club and some of its supporters.

Does it irk you that some people care about what is happening and are trying to help the club out?

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It is strange OSCR that you don't classify me as someone who tries to help the club out, when I have already invested a significant amount of my income on as I put before a five yr season ticket.

I purchased the season ticket because like you I support Salford.

Does it not irk you that as a member of Forever Reds the club has milked you us a convenient cash cow, and after all you time, dedication, hard work and monies raised nothing has changed. Are you happy with that?

But you've still not told me how many members you have

It evolved, it was a fantastic success in 2003, it brought people together and those people decided to carry on as the friendships that developed and the feeling of one shared passion made it a great organisation to be in. Times change, things are going well at the club and supporter apathy sadly sets in, I had many conversations were I was made aware that people thought there is no need to continue the concept. However a few carried on, got access to players and club officials (which had been taken away from many fans by the club) and continued to help.

Now, at this time we need a targeted approach from an organisation that is recognised as operating in OUR clubs interests and is governed properly as per Iain's post, Forever Reds is exactly that, we [iare[/i independent but the whole purpose of Forever Reds is to support the club and I for one can not think of a more prominent issue than the one we now face, so we either face it together or we may as well not bother at all, personalities come and go (we see that enough in our squad) and even people who have worked together in FR have had "differences in opinions" but we need OUR club to survive, and without us doing all we can we won't have a club to moan about, so forget petty personal issues right now and either support the cause or stop worrying, it won't be a issue for you!

Don't involve me in your spat,Grufy's post is to good for me,and you for that matter. I can asure you you he is no
relation,but he has some good points don't you agree,I can also say it does not irk me that some people are helping
out,thats good.I think we will get more people helping,when this lot go.

Gruffy, I'm not sure what you mean by Independent.

Forever Reds has to have a working relationship with the club, and as a spokesman/person Shirl is hardly going to say anything to the press that is slagging off the board. That's her public profile. That doesn't mean she and the board of Forever Reds all hold those views or don't discuss the failing of the club in private or the meetings.

What Shirl and Al do in their personal life is their business and I think they should be commended in enabling Theo to be signed by the club. Maybe if we had more people willing to take on this role the world would be a better place, and our academy would have a larger pool of players

I am not a current member of Forever Reds mainly because personal stuff stopped us attending the meetings and therefore not nagged to renew. I still believe the values of FR are worthy of support and if you attended the meeting you may change your mind as votes are taken on what to do with any funds raised. Better still put yourself forward for the next board elections and make change happen.

I joined and renewed my membership a number of times in the early days of FR.
Due to work etc I was unable to attend meetings but was happy to give any monetary support etc as it was helping the club.
Over the years it appears to have become an old boys club with too much of a cushy link to the present board and players.
Even JW hinted at this at the meeting.
If it is independent then surely concerns should have been raised at how the stadium move and subsequent mismanagement was unfolding ?

All this is not helping and deflecting from the pressing issue of not having a club to follow.

For once my mate Mich (whom I am very disappointed to see has blocked me) is talking sense. Now is the time all you Reds fans should be pulling together,not in fighting amongst yourselves.
If all of you sing from the same hymn sheet then there are enough of you to perhaps save you club.

It's doubtful that will happen.

I just think that there will be so little interest from 'fans' that anything financial will be pocket money at best. That's not to say we shouldn't try, you never know, stranger things have happened.