Nobody will become more competitive by being confined to a meaningless second-tier tournament that nobody cares about.

What right do you have to determine which nations can and can't compete, or to say that others aren't worthy? Typical arrogant 'big 3' mentality.

It was my opinion...I didn't determine anything and didn't say anyone wasn't worthy.

Ireland v Fiji in 2008 was a cracking game......it was both teams RLWC Final in reality, because of whom they were playing to meet.
Since then, AFAIK, Ireland have played 12 games....smashing Serbia but regularly loosing to Scotland, Wales, England Knights and France as well as being beaten by Lebanon.

Interestingly, Lebanon fielded a fair smattering of NRL stars with a few locals....Ireland was predominantly made up of Championship club players and a handful of locals....I fail to see the benefit to either games standing back at home from this game, played in front of 200 locals in Wales on a wet and windy November Sunday.
The Last 2 years, the England Knights have hammered Ireland 118-8 over 2 games...feel free to detail how that has helped develop the game in Ireland?

most of the Irish lads that received these pastings will likely as not miss out this October/November because some okers mum had a pint of stout one......happy for you to explain how this benefits the game in Ireland?

If I were an Irish rep RL player and I lost my RLWC spot in such a fashion, I am not sure I'd be keen to step up again for the European Cup hammering by the Knights in 2014.

Yet you're the one that is suggesting that the World Cup should be scrapped and Ireland should be confined to these sort of matches for the foreseeable future?

Ireland's team was so weak because the matches were meaningless, as you say, it was nothing like the full-strength Ireland team we'll see at the World Cup. Any why would it be, why would any top players waste their time playing in a second-tier match against England Knights? You're right, these matches did nothing for the game in Ireland, so why continue with that failed formula? You're totally contradicting yourself, the key to development is for these nations to be involved in more high-profile matches, not less.

Nope...I am saying that countries such as Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Serbia, wales (to a certain extent) need to play more of these regular games against each other....and the players who turn out in these games should be rewarded by retaining their places and not having them nicked by Australian or English born players not good enough for their country of birth, but who's mother once drank a Pint of Guinness.

rlLUKE DOUGLASrlis no more Scottish than I am....he doesn't ply his trade there and he actually has a sibling who plays for Australia. I am not sure if he has ever actually been to Scotland, yet he will pull on their colours this year
And before anyone pipes up with the worlds smaller or they're the same rules for other sports....find me a football code where the scenario above it the norm.

If RL has no plans to grow the game internationally then they should just stick to the 2 pro leagues and the tri-nations.......because in terms of development, that's all they've pretty much done so far.

I am still convinced it's Fiji making up the last 4.

If their squad contains the talent below, they'll have too much for Ireland and too much for France/PNG/Samoa.

Fiji: Jayson Bukuya (Cronulla Sharks); Sisa Waqa (Melbourne Storm); Akuilla Uate, Kevin Naiqama, Korbin Sims (Newcastle Knights); Ashton Sims, Tariq Sims (North Queensland Cowboys); Jarryd Hayne, Jacob Loko, Semi Radradra (Parramatta Eels); Wes Naiqama (Penrith Panthers); Kane Evans (Sydney Roosters); John Sutton (South Sydney Rabbitohs); Marika Koroibete, Lote Tuquiri (Wests Tigers) + Petero Civoniceva (Redcliffe Dolphins)

That's a pretty strong assumption with no facts

The game was shown live in those countries, wouldn't have been on TV it was two amateur sides drawn from the local comps

The game featured superstars who the kids see in the NRL every week in front of a decent passionate crowd. These are stars the kids follow and admire, you don't get the same interest watching some local amateurs who you have never heard of

Whose to say some kid (or adult) wasn't in front of a TV watching that game thinking that is a great game and I want to play it and maybe one day play for my country?

The game in those countries need a lot of help and support, dropping them from top tier international l to play locals in some amateur games will do nothing to grow the game in the likes of Fiji, Samoa and tonga.


Just had a look at the Samoan RU team and out of the current 30 odd players listed only 2 of them play in Samoa. Half the Tongan squad listed were born in NZ. It's a reality of these PI teams in union and league they are made up of players born and playing elsewhere in the world. Especially league where there are large populations of islander descended families in RL heartland areas of Australia where the kids are drawn to RL as their preferred choice of sport.

Samoan Squad has 26 of the current 30 as born in Samoa
Tongan RU squad at the recent IRB funded Pacific Cup had 21 of their 30 (70%)born in Tonga.

I fail to see how you pointing incorrectly at Samoa and Tonga in Union makes 21 tourists, some of whom have never been to Scotland, playing for Scotland

...just noticed....neither Samoa or Tonga have ever played a HOME RL match...is that to cut down on the players travelling times

Right, except that's the complete opposite of what you stated in your last post, where you criticized Ireland's lack of development since 2008 because they haven't been playing enough relevant matches.

If you think any nations are going to progress by being confined to meaningless second-tier internationals against equally undeveloped countries and being prevented from taking part in any important or legitimate competition then you're absolutely kidding yourself.

Why would I aspire to represent my country....the highest honour for most sportsmen and women when even if I get to play for Ireland, once RLWC comes around, I'll be replaced by an overseas import with an Irish Granny? Irish development needs to be just that...Irish development....not 2nd chances for average Aussies.

As for the 2nd tier competition not being important or legitimate.....well, you accused me earlier of "big 3 arrogance"....what is you saying that these minnows must be allowed to play the top tier, but to prevent hammerings, we'll fill them with foreigners if it's not arrogant.

Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Wales, USA, Jamaica and PNG playing in a 2 group series with the top 2 from each meeting in the semis would be far more meaningful than the topic of this thread.....which basically is who will get to the semi-finals only to get trounced by Australia!

Meanwhile, France can sit at the top table again for now, but if they continue to resist improvement, then they can be replaced by the most improved of the 2nd tier nations.

Do you think Japanese Rugby Union will benefit more from the November test match v the All Blacks on Tokyo than they did from their participation in the Pacific Nations cup earlier this year featuring the #11, 13,14,15 18 ranked sides?
They defeated an understrength Wales during the Lions tour...was that arrogance on behalf of the Welsh or were the Japanese keen to get games under their belts?

Genuine question by the way.....given the Japanese have only 5 non Japanese born players in their squad, how much has their game improved on all levels since the 17-145 hammering dished out in 1995?

The same year.....1995, South African RL was getting pummelled in the RLWC...have they come on as well as Japanese Union in the same time-frame?
Including the 2000 RLWC and 2013 RLWC qualifiers.....they have played 8 times.

Like I said I reckon some kid in Fiji watching someone like Hayne be a genius for Fiji in the WC live on TV in Suva is going to do more in getting kids playing RL than a column inch in the paper telling how some player from the makoi bulldogs got mom against an amateur Scotland team in a 2nd tier comp. Things are improving at a dramatic pace in this part of the world since the arlc took over. Developing the game in the region is on the ARL's radar and they now finally have the money and freedom to act. Come back in a few years and we'll see what has developed. Here is just one initiative to identify Fijian talent and support players that move from Fiji to Australia to play www.afrl.com.au/aboutafrl.htm

Like I said I reckon some kid in Fiji watching someone like Hayne be a genius for Fiji in the WC live on TV in Suva is going to do more in getting kids playing RL than a column inch in the paper telling how some player from the makoi bulldogs got mom against an amateur Scotland team in a 2nd tier comp. Things are improving at a dramatic pace in this part of the world since the arlc took over. Developing the game in the region is on the ARL's radar and they now finally have the money and freedom to act. Come back in a few years and we'll see what has developed. Here is just one initiative to identify Fijian talent and support players that move from Fiji to Australia to play www.afrl.com.au/aboutafrl.htm

It's been about 5 pages, can you not agree to disagree?

I'm still going with France, their familiarity with eachother should help.

Not when someone is categorically wrong about something.

Anyway, my vote is split between Scotland, Fiji and Italy. I think any of those nations would be a match for the big 3 should they get the opportunity to face them.