Maybe he's just a victim of being a decent, if flawed, centre who has been gratuitously overhyped? I did wince when someone described him as arguably the world's second best centre during the line up. The best centres will demand the ball, even command it to them, nobody moans that the likes of Lyon and Inglis don't get passed to because they simply find a way to be on the end of that ball.

I think it's just the usual problem with depth perception on camera angles where the ball arcs across an upright.

Even though the shot is from behind the goal and the ball disappears fleetingly behind the upright?

I don't really bother too much these days as they are leagues apart in terms of skill etc I'm thinking more in terms of the Aussies the Kiwi's is done and dusted and the challenge ahead is tougher.
Stark truth is the final will be between the two better sides.

On Watkins inclusion if he had signed for his local club he would never have gotten selected as an International in the first place. Take Scott Taylor he was fit for purpose last year but didn't get selected until he signed for Hull. Who knows maybe Josh Griffin will get his call next year certainly deserves a shot.

Sorry but Hodkinson is not an upgrade on Widdop or Gale imo and is not in the class of Johnston Thurston and Cronk who have the ability to unlock a tight international defence and be a match winner on his own. Austin maybe in time but its clutching at straws. Truth is there are very few in the bracket of the three players mentioned above and unfortunately we just don't have one and haven't for a very long time which is why we fall just short time and again like yesterday.

Only caught the game today and reading this forum beforehand I was expecting a really poor display but as usual on here quite an overreaction. Not saying it was good, but wasn't poor either.

Don't think anybody for England had a bad game, just no one really had a great game. Just a lot of average performances with the key problem being a lack of organisation and direction when we had the ball and as for wholesale changes do people really think that some of the players being mentioned as replacements would've come up with something, because I seriously doubt a scenario where Ryan Atkins and Stefen Ratchford and Scott Taylor are the difference makers against a New Zealand international side.

The two changes I'd make are the ones that were touch and go before that game. Williams in for Gale who didn't really take his chance and also Percival for Sarginson. The latter choice I wanted to see this tournament anyway and although Sarginson had a strong end to the season it was from FB.

The criticism of Watkins is exaggerated but expected. Yes couldn't take in what was a tricky pass to take but didn't really have much to work with after and the ideal chance for him near the end when we were breaking Widdop looped it over him to the less paced Bateman. Not much has been said of the good chance McGillivary didn't take on the 20 mins mark when one on one with his opposite winger 5m out he ran straight at him and didn't go low or to the right or left of him, just tried to run over him and failed to do so but because he managed to squeeze the ball out it went a bit unnoticed.

A massive over reaction by some people,bottom line is we need a far better preparation for these test matches,an uncompetitive game against France doesn't prepare you for close games against teams of New Zealand and Australia's ilk. Imo I don't think there was too much between the two sides other than Sean Johnson and his ability to gain repeat sets which drained the life out of the England's tank.

I wouldn't change too much has we have to stick to a plan and let those players learn from the experiences they are put in,changing the team every other game just doesn't work we need a stable team that needs time to develop without players worrying they may not get another chance unless they come up with a world class performance "a 1 pont loss is hardly a disaster all be it disappointing has more often than not we're coming out on the wrong end of these games".

Again for the future we need to be more pro active with more youth international get togethers,possibly sending our young players down under to play meaningful games down under to see how they do it in a different environment.dropping players after 1 test isn't the way forward. We aren't has bad as some would like to believe and the gulf in class at the top level isn't there but big match experience is!

www.loverugbyleague.com/news_239 ... -miss.html I think this video conclusively shows the drop goal missed. The ball goes behind the post on the close up.

www.loverugbyleague.com/news_239 ... -miss.html I think this video conclusively shows the drop goal missed. The ball goes behind the post on the close up.

Yes, that the one I referred to.

Just read a NZ newspaper's match report which said "England's centres are sub-standard." who'd have thought?

It's goes through the posts. Just some have fallen for an optical illusion because of the white of the ball and white of the posts. 5/6 England guys are looking right at it as it goes through including Lomax who is right under the posts.....none of them bat an eyelid when it's awarded. Are we saying all of those guys didn't notice it go wide?

I wasn't that impressed with Kata and SKD if you measure them all up together.

One idea regarding team selection if he sticks with the Burgess twins that I actually thought we should do before the Kiwi game is to start one of them and have one of Hill and Graham on the bench.

Therefore instead of the leaders of Hill and Graham departing around the same time with the twins coming on we go for let's say Graham and G.Burgess to start and then Hill and T.Burgess on for them around 20-30 mins so you have a mix with at least one of Graham and Hill on the pitch all the time.