FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > War of the roses debate. |
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| People from Yorkshire tend to show a great deal of pride in coming from Yorkshire.
However, that's not as evident in people from other counties. They're more likely to identify with their town rather than the region. Which is why I think the roses clash never really took off as a thing
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| I never understood why when we are so quick to praise the Auissie game, set up etc etc we haven't had a proper crack at trying to emulate its most marketed event.
I also agree with people who say we need more international games, not only to build the game, but I think it would force clubs to carry bigger squads and afford youngsters more game time if they were without their players for 4 weeks in midseason.
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| Quote: JonB95 "Indeed.. when was the last time you heard fans of Saints/Wigan/Wire et al chanting Lancashire? In fact, even the good people of Yorkshire couldn't get up for it before it was scrapped - see the paltry attendances for yourself here -
It's only dead and buried because we (as a sport) crippled it and then took it out to the woodshed.
Why not do both?
Why not play regular internationals v both France & Wales and play a 3 game Roses series? The sport is crying out for something different in the season rather than just yet another SL game between the same old teams.
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6731_1299024498.jpg [quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg |
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| Quote: Him "It's only dead and buried because we (as a sport) crippled it and then took it out to the woodshed.
Why not do both?'" Because it's a ing idiotic waste of time, that's why.
"Emulating Origin will help us to compete with the Aussies" - this type of discussion happens literally every year. You people are utter morons. Did someone really suggest bringing back some "war of the roses" nonsense to replace the Magic Weekend, which is one of the best events in the season and generates a huge income and profile boost for the sport?
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| Quote: headhunter "Because it's a loving idiotic waste of time, that's why.
"Emulating Origin will help us to compete with the Aussies" - this type of discussion happens literally every year. You people are utter morons. Did someone really suggest bringing back some "war of the roses" nonsense to replace the Magic Weekend, which is one of the best events in the season and generates a huge income and profile boost for the sport?
Why is it a waste of time getting 2 sets of top English players playing against each other?
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| Quote: Him "Why is it a waste of time getting 2 sets of top English players playing against each other?'"
Because as pointed out the whole Lancashire/Yorkshire thing is no longer representative of the structure of the sport and makes the game look parochial and focused on the past. Plus the last time we had this competition nobody bothered to go to games.
Theoretically you could come up with a similar competition with a different theme, but which games would you drop to squeeze it in to an already pretty crowded schedule?
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| Quote: headhunter "Because it's a loving idiotic waste of time, that's why.
"Emulating Origin will help us to compete with the Aussies" - this type of discussion happens literally every year. You people are utter morons. Did someone really suggest bringing back some "war of the roses" nonsense to replace the Magic Weekend, which is one of the best events in the season and generates a huge income and profile boost for the sport?
I don't think we should replace magic weekend but, if it were taken seriously and used as a chance to gain selection for England, then, the concept is a good one.
Of course, if it's crammed in, mid week, without any decent promotion, forget it
The game would be more competitive than England v France or, England v Wales
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| People are always saying about playing the challenge cup over a shorter period of time so if that was played in the second half of the season then a 3 game roses series could be played in the first half. Besides which when people go on about mid-season internationals, it would be just as hard to cram them in.
One thing a roses series would do is give our game something different, unique from other sports in this country. Football and union don't have this kind of thing and so if we marketed it right then it would probably get at least a little bit of interest.
Of course another option to get playing representative football would be to have a 3 game exiles series. I think those games were hit by the curse of bad organisation that everything else in our game is. One positive for exiles is that it wouldn't be seen as old fashioned and backwards looking as some have said. Also bbc seem to be showing all England games so it would get some great publicity and showcase a wide range of super league talent. Would act as a marketing tool for our domestic game as well.
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| No , I would like to see England play more internationals. A break between rounds 1-23 and the super 8's would be ideal. England could go down under and play one test each against PNG, Aus and NZ. France, Wales, Scotland and Ireland could play tests against each other at home.
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
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| Quote: Him "It's only dead and buried because we (as a sport) crippled it and then took it out to the woodshed.
Why not do both?
Why not play regular internationals v both France & Wales and play a 3 game Roses series? The sport is crying out for something different in the season rather than just yet another SL game between the same old teams.'"
Exactly, we need to re badge it and hype it up into a big event like other sports do. Super league is no longer a game with consistent intensity, with the league based on depth of squad and how many players get injured these days its very much gone into mediocrity.
It might give us the opportunity short term to attract bigger sponsors, its needs proper planning and image otherwise the "cloth cappers" will just see it as another Lancashire v Yorkshire game with no interest and value. State of Origin is one of the best events on the sporting calendar for any sport, we just need the vision and commitment to emulate it in the right way to give it supporting and media attraction.
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| So with St Helens in Merseyside, Wigan and Salford in Gtr Manchester, Wire and Widnes in Cheshire, which clubs fans represents Lancashire? How far down the leagues do you need to go to find a club in Lancashire?
It's parochial, it's out dated, with the moaning that went with the Easter fixtures do you think clubs will back it? Nope.
We won't fill stadiums, it will die on its backside.
Why do we have this debate every once in a while, it's a dead concept.
East and West wouldn't work on reflection but it would be the best idea of the lot.
Have them play Wales, Scotland, France and use it as a way of section for the ENGLAND team. Even a West and East team would beat the lesser nations.
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG |
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| Quote: Wire Yed "So with St Helens in Merseyside, Wigan and Salford in Gtr Manchester, Wire and Widnes in Cheshire, which clubs fans represents Lancashire? How far down the leagues do you need to go to find a club in Lancashire?
It's parochial, it's out dated, with the moaning that went with the Easter fixtures do you think clubs will back it? Nope.
We won't fill stadiums, it will die on its backside.
Why do we have this debate every once in a while, it's a dead concept.
East and West wouldn't work on reflection but it would be the best idea of the lot.
Have them play Wales, Scotland, France and use it as a way of section for the ENGLAND team. Even a West and East team would beat the lesser nations.'"
Just call it Easts v Wests with the pennines as the datum line. The title of the post is a bit "flat cap".
Don't have the magic weekend as an extra super league game, we should be play each side twice not a lottery 3rd game based on previous season position. In the 23 game stage its become an handicap these days.
Biggest problem is the amount of overseas players in super league so if its not reduced then we are looking at a couple of championship players.
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| Logistics seems to be the problem with any suggestion we have. The problem with a series like this or any midseason international is getting it to fit in the calender and getting coaches, players and fans to take it seriously.
In terms of being taken seriously, internationals are more likely to achieve this in a short period of time.
Ideally I'd like to see a mid season home nations tournament and then a GB tour at the end of the year. They'd have to be supported by both SL and NRL clubs in terms of releasing players and making it a regular thing, which in itself represents a problem.
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| Only the WAR OF THE ROSES will be inspiratinal enough for MARKETING purposes.
You could run it with Super League rules, ie, 5 none lancs or yorks players per team, so you can then put together the best players in SL pitting themselves against each other.
Other wise we play a game or 3 games with no value and no marketing and the clubs with the big English stars will just feign injuries to exclude them, once the main raft of english stars available are out then no one is really interested. At least the with 5 extras each team you can pick the Sandows, Walshes, Fage's of the world etc and make the game more colourful and higher standard.
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| I don't see a problem with championship players playing. A little mix up will make it better for the audience anyway. Championship players will more than lightly try harder anyway along with players looking for an England spot. I say bring it back. No point in having Engalnd matches mid season due to the fact of Bennet being away with the Australian based players also unavailable.
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