By beating nothing but dross to get there.

All wins against dross apart from Warrington away and the Grand Final itself.

For 2 games only.

Much better to decide it on the basis of 2 games at the end of the season. Meanwhile, forget about all the dross being played in the previous 30+ games, eh?

Leeds only played well in 2 games last season... the last two. The rest was dross against dross. Quit trying to rewrite history.

You can only beat what's infront of you.

Again, not our fault.

You can't play well for only 2 games a season and win the Grand Final, contrary to what you may say. Ask any coach about that.

I never said that, if a team has a poor start to the season, this shouldn't mean they should be exempt from winning it later on. Leeds played better in the second half of the season to the first, only because they started slowly meant they finished fifth. They still had the quality to win the competition, showing that the start of the season wasn't a true reflection of the teams ability.


They didn't though did they.

This would probably never happen, but how about Grand Final play-offs with just the top 3.

The Champions go straight through to the grand final, whilst 2nd and 3rd play off to see who meets them. The benefits would be at least one 'big' team will miss out and thus place more emphasis on winning the league games.

Of course it would bring up the issue of teams lower down having nothing to play for, but perhaps in addition to this you could hold a three round cup for teams from 4th to 7th.

W1: 4th vs 7th, 5th vs 6th
W2: Winners of W1 play each other. 2nd vs 3rd.
W3/GF: Winners of W2 cup play loser of 2nd/3rd.

Then use the cup as a warm up game for a double header at Old Trafford. Would probably help add a few extra thousand to the gate as well.

If you bottle in 5 finals in a row there is little to blame on the playoff sytem. Did you complain in 1999 and 2000?

If anybody isn't bothered when their team loses a league fixture, then I think that says much more about that person than it does the state of the game. Although the season ended up successful for Leeds, I didnt leave Headingley after heavy defeats to Warrington and Huddersfield thinking 'oh it doesn't matter'. I also very much doubt that Wigan players aren't disappointed this morning after losing last night.

I'm guessing the atmosphere last night was pretty flat, given no-one cared about the result?

Agree with a lot of that. Not enough quality in the competition to support a realistic top 8, although a marketing man could make an argument that Leeds vistory last year from 5th against Saints from 3rd justifies the extended system by proving that clubs from lower down the table can win the final. It would be bull$h!t, but there will be people who run SL patting themselves on the back about it.

Being a little more even handed towards Leeds though, we did start the season with a new coaching team and a squad that needed some "attention". I guess what we saw last year was some re-organisation at the start of the season and poor results and poor performances. I think it took the players some time to get to grips with BMD's way of thinking (or maybe for BMD to get to grips with what Leeds are good at and let them do it), but I also think some of the players let themsleves down early on. But, when McGuire and Peacock got some fitness back that helped and the team started to gel 2/3 of the way into the season. Hardaker coming through added some balance to the attack which had been fairly inept ealry on - and I honestly think he made a big difference to the whole shape of the team. Had we had played the likes of Saints, Warrington or Wigan in a league game later in the year it's possible we could have beaten them (we were close to Wigan all year anyway). We'll never know. In the end we had to get past three teams who finished above us in the table - if they run out of gas (or alternatively - crumble under pressure) that's their fault really.
Our early season form so far would suggest that the $h!t we managed to get together after the CC last year has stayed together. Still a long way to go though.

Exactly. Change the play off system to a top five or six if you like but don't get rid. I'm tired now of reading these comments about the regular rounds don't care. Not only it incorrect to the point of being a deliberate distortion of the truth it is also a betrayal of the players and coaches who week in week out certainly appear to be putting the effort in to winning as many games as they can. These are professional sportsmen and whilst (talking about on the pitch) some of them make a few mistakes every now and then, I don't question their professionalism [iand[/i I might even suggest that most of them are more professional than the rest of us in our own jobs as well.

Look at the current top 5 teams. Then imagine if it was a top 5 playoffs. The next few weeks would be great entertainment with Saints, Catalans, Leeds, Hull fighting out for position, instead of just letting the league fixtures peatering out. Then imagine the top 5 playoffs themselves, we would be in for entertainment every game. As it is they only get going in Week 3.

Leeds vs warrington this season before the game, Peacock 'we're not to worried if we win or lose this game' i'm paraphrasing but that was the attitude. Do you think salford vs warrington , a regular round game, did warrington care? care enough to leave fit first choicers in the stands.

Well we'll see how that impacts on Warrington won't we

The season is only just getting into its swing although I understand why a Wire fan might not have enjoyed this season as much as last.

Just getting into it's swing, what round are we in now?

I didn't say that prior to this there was no excitement.

On the issue of players, it's shameful that people still think these guys don't go out there aiming to win. Pretty much every match I've seen this season has had players committed to the game. In some games they may find more commitment than others but that's no different to under a league format e.g. teams raise their game against local rivals only to perform poorly in a match they should be winning the week after. That hasn't changed. What appears to have changed is that some fans seem to think players don't try as hard now as they used to, which is poppycock.