The difference was that back then, most sport was part time or semi-professional and there was much less competing for your average punter's leisure dollar. Times have changed.

I want to watch the best players competing with each other week in, week out. Not the best of what Australia has decided it doesn't want. And I want people to be enthused by the sport, not one of the million other things they can do at the weekend.

There's a big difference between "living with our means" and "being devoid of any vision".

Indeed they did (albeit 20k only on a couple of occasions)....as they swept all before them, until other sides tried to copy their model and "buy" silverware which nearly bankrupted a few of them.....AGAIN, NOT A SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL!

If Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Wire, Saints and Catalan decided to leave the SL/RFL and join with a North American/French consortium including Toronto, Toulouse and maybe even London, what would be left "to strengthen"?
Those 6 SL sides averaged 11,775 per regular season game in 2017 between them....the other 6 SL clubs averaged 6,154! Are SKY going to continue to pay top dollar for a league made up of Castleford, Wakey, Huddersfield, leigh, Widnes and Salford combined with Halifax, Featherstone, Batley, Barrow, Hunslet and Whitehaven? Are they heck.......and god only knows how low that average attendance would plummet to.

BTW....I don't think for 1 second that North America is going anywhere in a hurry....Toronto are a shambles compared to last years bluster and stories of debts and misbehaving players are rife, but the simple economics of it dictate that without expansion, the game will contract, shrink and become worth less to advertisers, sponsors and Broadcast companies.......and without the TV money we slip back to semi-professional with Union and the NRL able to plunder at will......

I guess we'll never agree about this, as I'll always have a "fans" perspective on the matter, and was very happy, nay passionate, attending games in those semi-pro days to follow my team. The players were certainly less fit and less athletic then, but had a skill and guile that is maybe devoid in our game in many ways now. Is it better now? Could it be better now? Who knows, but it's certainly a different game.

Income is important for all RL clubs whether from TV or gate receipts, but for the fans it's all about what happens on the field.

I have no issue per se with expansion, but there is no visible and coherent plan to make it a success. Other than Catalans (who escaped by the skin of their teeth last season), we've just seen a catalogue of failure anywhere outside of the heartlands (Toulouse are limping along in the Championship). Let's have another club in France. Hey, one in Canada would be a good idea. What about USA next? No sensible plan and hence doomed to failure.

The thrill of attending was always the draw for many generations, but now it's so much more.....so very much more. The game was on its backside and semi-pro with little hope of surviving in a resurgent and developing entertainment/sports space, so the game moved to Summer and went "all-in" in terms of The Superleague.
Has it worked? I'd say it has, but not nearly as well as many expected or hoped. Paris lasted a heartbeat whilst other clubs such as Oldham weren't prepared for it....and after a few years of "bedding down" the new system" we ended up with about 14 sides that were worthy of a spot......Bradfords implosion showed that Heartland clubs needed to stay alert, whilst Wales showed us AGAIN that there is no quick expansion system.....it takes time and certainly more than the 3/5 years Toronto are working to.
If London Broncos exist in another 20 years, then I reckon they will be at the stage where you'll see 17 Local lads running out for them with plenty more playing at SL grade, but unless the game assists with marketing in these new areas, then the cubs can't be expected to foot the bill for running a club and developing local talent to an alien game.
Melbourne Storm is how you transplant a side into enemy territory.......but all we ever got from the North was unsubstantiated rumours and accusations of favouritism....distrust and lots of bitterness because we had taken the spot of a Pit Village team who had a "right" to be there.

As I have said, if anti-expansionists want to, then let them play among themselves, but I don't see the top cubs delivering 70% of the crowds being to enamored with paying for the bottom clubs to simply "survive".

I think you can still have a "fans" perspective on things and still appreciate that things need to change if the sport is going to improve.

I've been lucky enough to see some amazing players in this country. I'm someone who was introduced to the game just before the summer switch but I still remember watching amazing talents like Lauitiiti, Buderus, McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, Schofield, Carroll, Morley, Peacock, Harris, Iro and Godden play for my own team, and talents like Steve Renouf, Trent Barrett, Andrew Johns, Jason Robinson, Jimmy Lowes, Va'aiga Tuigamala, Paul Sculthorpe, the Paul brothers and Jamie Lyon (off the top of my head) play against them.

My arguments for the sport taking a different direction don't come from me being some souless corporate shill. They come from me being a fan of the sport. They come from me wanting to see the sort of talent that I describe above more often. I don't want to feel that the only way I can see the best players that the sport has to offer is once every four years when the Australians tour here, or through my TV. And I want my young son to be inspired to play the sport. I want him to look at players and say "I want to be like him" and, if he's good enough, go on to achieve as much as he can in the game.

What worries me is that if things don't change, we won't be able to attract and keep those players because we can't / won't pay them their worth, we won't be able to inspire young people into the sport because we don't offer the facilities and pathways that encourage kids into the game, and I as a fan won't be able to see more of what I want.

I don't think you can compare the part-time era of the game, where RL was often one of the few tickets in town and when the 'business' of sport was so different, with the 2018 sport and leisure scene and say that we can go back to that without causing some serious damage.

It is a shame that Anthony Gelling has gone to NZ. He could make a pretty mean promotional video.

I also enjoyed it more than .
I feel the game has become to sterile in the way it's played (more sides seem to now to play 5 drives and a kick form), which is why Castleford were a breath of fresh air last year.
We need concentrate on sorting out the rucks, get the scrums back to being competitive. Possibly the side that kicks a 40/20 gets a tap rather than a scrum. Sort these things out added to the present rules about kicking we have a faster better game. Which promotes the product.
As no matter what you try to do off the pitch, or where you try to promote it what happens on the pitch has the final say on who you try to promote it to.
Have a system (I think you need to have p&r) that you are going to keep long term. Then you can promote to a new ordinance. Constant changing dosn't help in any way.
I would also like most games played on a sat/sun afternoon (I know most people will disagree, and that at some clubs it works). As I don't feel thurs/Fri games help bring in newer crowds, or attract away fans. Both of which I think are essential in trying to promote the product.

I think you're slightly wrong on the money thing. Fans do buy into the need for clubs to have more money, as look at the amount we spend on merchandising. On what we spend on at the ground. But you're right to us it's always going to be what happens on the field that's the be all and end all. And not for most clubs.

I also feel you're right about expansion. Until we have a system for the game that everybody buys into, and a philosophy with regards the game. Just dotting clubs in because there from here or there will never work.

That was the rule from last year re the 40/20.

These things are cyclical. Wigan won by wrestling. Other teams try to replicate the success of it. Game suffers. Over-reliance on physicality meant that Cas shook it up a bit, as it was different to the Aussie wrestle. Saints have pledged to follow, and I think Wire and Leeds the same. That will be the new style for a while, until someone learns how to defend better, and then its back to more biff and bash.

Competitive scrums is definitely not the way forward though. Scrums need rules to make them fair, which means technical penalties, and forever replaying the things. Scrapping them altogether would be real progress.

What really annoys me about scrums is teams never have the right amount of players in one from the off. We always wait until someone runs in and fills in. Not hard to get 6 blokes in the scrum with a half at the side.

Bad sales people are great at "BLAME" rather than selling a product. If we'd had a steady decline in attendances then I'd appreciate that maybe it's the product that is off, but the average over 22 seasons is 8,591 and last season we averaged 8,568, so we haven't shed fans as a competition although I would be concerned with the average age of our supporters going up.......
The issue (and this thread to get it back on line) is how do we attract more fans and then keep them coming back? Is it down to the RFL, the Clubs or a combination of both?

Isn't that to do with different scrum make-ups depending on who's putting it in or where the scrum is played, as they put different players in the attacking/defensive lines at different points? It's more to do with players not realising it was their turn.

At times this can contribute to it. But usually when it happens the nearest player just fills in. So it just looks like they have no idea how to form a scrum rather than for tactical purposes.

I know defenses like to have their FB in the LF role. And for attack a hooker will go to LF to ensure good distribution if the half doesn't pass. But when the play is stopped due to lack of numbers it's usually down to the players not using their heads and just getting in there. I know I'm being picky but we all have those little things that grind their gears and this happens to be mine. Ironic since I am a hooker and in the scrum too