The Wests Tigers player of the year award is a vote by the players. It has more to do with fitting in among a group and being liked as one of the lads as opposed to some form of matchday performance-related scientific analysis of who is the best and most crucial player in the team. I daresay when it comes to a player vote, Aussies and Kiwis may find it a more comfortable compromise voting for the lone Pom in the squad. Like you, I remain underwhelmed by Ellis when I've seen him play for the Tigers and even more so at international level. Over the past couple of seasons he has been selected for England on the basis of his reputation rather than his performances which have been ordinary.


I think Rancid's critique of Burgess is based more on the fact that Burgess has spent extensive periods not playing due to being afflicted with long-term injuries, therefore his reputation as a great player in the NRL is unjustified. I'd agree with that assessment. When he's actually fit and playing however, his performances have been very good and standout on occasions.

Your position on Ellis as player of the year is as cringeworthy as those who fawn over players. With Ellis in the side, Wests look like they have a decnt pack - without him they don't. Its been that way since he joined. He is far and away their most important forward (excluding hooker). Have a look at Wests fans views of him on their forums if you disagree.

The consensus view about Graham (who was restricted by a cut yesterday) is that he's already looking the goods.

If anybody, its Burgess who has to do more. Injuries have been the main cause, but playing for Souths doesn't help either. Like the rest of the team its moments of skill surrounded by dross. Hopefully with Sandow out of the way they might start playing with some sort of structure.

In fixtures where Ellis plays, Wests Tigers win percentage is 56.1% (based on 37 wins and 29 losses). When he doesn't play their win percentage is 61.5% (based on 8 wins and 5 losses). The opinion of adulatory Tigers supporters on an internet forum are about as valid as adulatory Rhinos supporters opinion on the greatness of Ryan Bailey on their internet forum.


I fully expect Graham to be the best and most effective Pom playing out there. He is currently England's best player by a long way after all.


Agree with all that.

www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 1unbi.html An interesting article about the 3 imports.

www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 1unbi.html An interesting article about the 3 imports.

Oh dear Keith. You're only saying this to get a bite.

What Keith says about Club player of the year awards is true though.
It is selected by the players and is not indication of a players performance.

There are plenty of examples of players winning that are not the standout player at the Club but are well liked and give their all each game.

Typical Schofield quote. The guy finds it impossible to credit anyone outside of his own era with equal abilities. I mean, it's difficult to argue about the greatness of guys like Ward and Hanley. But aside from the odd decent game (when he was younger) I don't recall Lee Crooks pulling up too many Australian trees.

As you well know. Players player awards are based on who each player thought who was the best player on the park on that given game. Each player is asked who is the players' player. As a player it's the one you want to win. Not a "fans one" or a "member's one". It's one voted on by your peers. Like winning an Oscar of sorts. The Player of the Year is based on exactly the same principle. It's not based on who your mate is.

Keith is a mate of mine. He is on a wind up.

Maybe Rooster, but it does not indicate the player that his Club mates choose is the best player at the Club, it says more about his standing amongst his team mates and in some cases it has even been almost an encouragement award.

For example, in 2010 who was the Players player at Melbourne Storm?
Was it...
Billy Slater?
Cam Smith?
Cooper Cronk?
Greg Inglis?
Ryan Hoffman?
Brett Finch?
Jeff Lima?






No it was Ryan Hinchcliffe, good luck to him.

As Keith said it's not that I don't rate Burgess, it's more-so that he's not gotten into any sort of groove in the NRL, and in between injuries while he's done some great things, he's also been prone to losing the ball in contact, or dropping it cold.

I rate Burgess massively, he has the potential, he's just failed to live up to it so far. He had a fantastic game last week, but he needs to put a few of them together to really be up there. So far in the NRL he's dropped more balls than Manu Vatuvei, I don't know if they've got some sort of wager going or what

Ellis on the other hand has been a monster and I can't see how anyone can see other wise. He would walk into either Origin team, he would walk into the Australian team, he would walk into the Kiwi team. Burgess has the potential to go better, but possibility and reality are often different things. The best thing for Sam is getting in a full season, getting a few games then being injured can't be doing much for him.

All 3 are great in their own right, Burgess of the 3 is the flakiest, and most prone to mistakes and injury. If you're looking to buy one of them he'd be the last I buy, but then he probably has the most impressive season in the history of the world when you tell him you aren't interested, and probably scores 2 tries against you in a grand final ----- granted he moves to a better club than the Rabbitohs

Hasler is right. Graham has achieved very little other than collecting a heap of losers medals both at club and international level.

I'd have Crooks ahead of Ward, and it wasn't the 'odd decent game' as a youngster Crooks was a superb ball handling forward and was nominated in Western Suburbs team of the 80s.

With Saints :
Minor Premiers 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Chalenge Cup winners 2006, 2007, 2008
SL Grand Final winners 2006
World Club Champions 2007

Individual:
Young Player of the Year 2006
Man of Steel 2008


Des Hasler knows jack s**t.