I'll let you off then!

No one serious counts the LLS as a "trophy" of substance! Remember Brian McDermott's comments after the CC final re the 10 trophies Leeds have won over the past 10 years - he ignored the 2 LLS as, like it or not, to the serious teams it is merely an enabler, not a trophy that they are determined to win. He did include the WCC however but that's not really available for everyone to go at as such.

So over the past 4 seasons to date it's really:
Wigan 4
Leeds 3
Wire 2

Why 4 seasons?
Why not 5 or 3 or 2 or 1. Seems a bit of a random number selector.

If the LLS mean little, then same could be argued of the CC as most teams don't bother to try and win it as it take their eye off the ball for the GF.

It's just left to the pretenders to win.

So may as well just count GF winners.

You might as well say all pieces of silverware for all superleage seasons. I think Saints are on about 21 with the nearest challenger Leeds around 13, the rest a lot of catching up to do.

Technically the League Leaders in the first few years of SL didn't receive a trophy, they were just called Minor Premiers.

Using the silverware method (only trophies given, not including Minor Premiers)
1. St Helens - 19
2. Leeds - 13
3. Bradford - 10
4. Wigan - 8
5. Warrington - 4
61. St Helens - 20
6 League Leaders 02,05,06,07,08,14
7 Challenge Cups 96,97,01,04,06,07,08
5 Championships 96,99,00,02,06
2 World Club Challenges 01,07

2. Leeds - 13
2 League Leaders 04,09
2 Challenge Cups 99,14
6 Championships 04,07,08,09,11,12
3 World Club Challenges 05,08,12

3. Bradford - 12
3 League Leaders 99,01,03
2 Challenge Cups 00,03
4 Championships 97,01,03,05
3 World Club Challenges 02,04,06

4. Wigan - 10
4 League Leaders 98,00,10,12
3 Challenge Cups 02,11,13
3 Championships 98,10,13

5. Warrington - 4
1 League Leaders 11
3 Challenge Cups 09,10,12

6
1 Challenge Cup 05

6
1 League Leaders 13

6
1 Challenge Cup 97

What happened before 1998? Did rugby league exist or was it a new thing back then?

It did, but no such thing as the Grand Final before 1998, which is what is being discussed here - so Wigan fans wind your necks in, we all know you won everything before then!!

What was being discussed, as the title of the post suggests, Wigan v Warrington. So one good derailment deserves another.
You've got to admit that Wigan are simply the most successful, famous and talked about side in Rugby League.

That's Souths, isn't it

maybe there wasn't a grand final before 1998 but 56 of the league champions were decided by a play off and only 32 actually won the title by being top of the league........History is written by the victors and I am sure that everyone agrees that Rugby league started in 1895 in a true format........not 1996 or 1998 as some would like it to have

Did it start in 1895, or was that northern Union.

Not trying to devalue RL prior to SL. My point about picking a set of random years applies to SL too.

(ps before the Grand Final the SL trophy was given to the league winners, they were not called the minor premiers)

But I'm not sure where northern Union stops and RL starts. I'm sure if we saw Northern union we would assume it was a game of Rugby Union.

When did the line outs and unlimited tackles go? Because prior to that was it not just the same game, with a different outlook on professionalism?

Genuine question.

if it's good enough for the governing body it's good enough for me:- www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/history ... iversaries

if it's good enough for the governing body it's good enough for me:- www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/history ... iversaries

Erm no its not.

Its Wigan vs Warrington to start off with.

Then it moved onto defining dominance by the amount of trophies etc.

Unlimited tackles went in 1905 iirc?

Edit: Scrap that, it was flankers who were removed in 1905 - line outs went before that though

The play-the-ball was invented in 1906, and to my mind that is THE fundamental distinction between the Rugby League and the lesser code.