Sorry to sound like a complete idiot but as a RL fanatic who ISN'T from the hardcore RL areas (norfolk) and not having been brought up within the RL culture ie flat caps,whippets & coal in the bath etc can you tell me if the game as a whole in the towns like Fax,Fev,Batley,Keighley etc etc was EVER much bigger than it is now ? has the average attendances remained stable over the past thirty years or dwindled for example ? Were there ever the 'good old days' of RL when the terraces at Batley were packed to the rafters ? What i'm trying to ask with my obvious ignorance is,has the sport always been a minority sport in comparison to football or cricket for example ? Is there only a finite section of hardcore who will ever be interested in RL ? Down here in the southern part of france RU is generally much better attended than a football match though in the north football reigns.RL is second to RU by a mile though RL crowds have remained stable throughout with probably an increase in attendances over the past few years

Yes and no.

All of the clubs you mention have had a 'golden period' at some point. Halifax & Keighley were far, far better supported in the late eighties/ early nineties, for example. Batley's record crowd of 20 odd thousand was set in the 1920s.

There was a golden period after WW II for all sports, when attendances were across the board higher than they are now. RL entered a steep decline in the 1960s and was really dying by the early 1970s. I remember Widnes being Britain's best supported club in the mid-1970s, with average crowds only 1000 or so up from what they get now in the championship. Things ticked up around 1980, with much higher crowds across all clubs. The key difference between then and now was that even clubs in the bottom half of division 2 were still averaging between 1000-4000 (Huyton excepted), whereas even the top clubs were not averaging much above 7-8000.

In terms of being a minority sport, I think you have to go back to the 1880s/90s to find a time when rugby crowds were generally higher than football crowds in the north. I think we've always outdrawn county cricket in terms of spectator numbers, though.

Chief Exec's tend to be busy running the club , so a ' jack of all trades' is quite often needed , and as we know usually they are a master of none

As for Marketing managers , if you are a manager you need workers to ' manage ' , doubtful if any clubs at Championship level can afford both , if any

SL clubs should have all the lot , but I'll bet some dont

So having a marketing manager and a team of people working full time isn't expensive ? , it is to most clubs at Championship level

If it was easy then surely the clubs would already be doing it , so why are they not ?

Yes but the world was a different place then travel was more difficult and watching sport ' live ' was the only option , at Championship level no clubs are going to draw large corporate support , so the only real option to become self sustaining is to either improve your fan base or work together to find new ways of funding your club outside the playing of RL

Leigh and Halifax are opening a Christmas Shop at Birch services next week.

One small step for flatcappers, one giant leap for Rugby League

sorry to have to correct you Starbug but TO13 does draw and has the potential to raise extensive corporate support.The president of the club,dear old Carlos has decided that SL is another few years off so hasn't invested heavily for 2011 knowing full well the club has the protection against relegation etc
The TO13 sponsorship is ready and waiting for the SL future.The success of Lezignan in the LER has proved that there is also massive potential for another CC team from the french rugby heartlands.The RFL seem intent on spreadingb the game europe-wide so this is probably inevitable.I understand the problems of the traditional M62 corridor clubs and it has to be up to them to cut their cloth accordingly - it has to be a community thing IMO - the clubs have to work with the locals to fight for their survival,there's no other choice - RL is a minority sport in the RL heartlands and I believe we have to thank SKY for keeping the game alive.Maybe the BBC should become involved more,maybe in conjunction with SKY to further spread the game to those of us without SKY Sports.

I wasn't reffering to Toulouse , my opinion on their inclusion in the Championship is that I dont want them in , they should not be in , they bring no value to the competition and the money spent on having them in the Championship is a waste that the sport cannot afford

I was reffering to the british clubs only , and from your post it would seem they dont have much of a future to look forward to

thanks Starbug,just goes to show what IS actually wrong with RL in good old northern england - that's why the minority sport will remain just that mainly due to blinkered ignorami such as yourself - it's the typical blinkered english attitude that will keep RL in the dark ages
TO13 has untold riches to invest in RL in europe - it's all there as there as there is no immediate competition in the area,not like 'oop north' where there we have about ten clubs within twenty miles of each other ecah fighting for survival in these hard times
The RFL want to progress and they see france & italy eventually as the future,even their saviour.Keep your racist and egoistic comments to yourself and let our great sport develop.

Racist? I don't think so

Anyway aren't toulouse RL the very poor relations to toulouse RU. Competition doesn't just have to come from RL does it.

what a shocking,ignorant and naive post that is.

sounds racist to me or at least very bitter like many up north who believe the game belongs to them - the same people who just cannot accept that the aussies are and always will be,barring the occasional flukey result totally superior in RL over the mighty england team (please don't come out with the old 'referee bias' diatribe)

Toulouse RU IS massive,much bigger than RL in the city itself but the RL potential in the general area is there,The RL team have had the misfortune to have had direct competition from a successful RU team (Euro champs) this past season with many of their home fixtures coinciding date wise with the RU league & cup games.The RL team could quite easily manage an average 2000 - 3000 crowd in the Championship games with proper organisation and a more progressive team - the president has realised his team will not be in SL for at least four seasons which will allow the new stadium to be built ready for SL where crowds will equal or better most of the present SL outfits.TO13 will start to build up to SL admission in 2012/13 seasons,until then the club will stagnate and save the investments for later.
I have spoken to several Championship chairmen at TO this season,the last one being Mr Steele from Fax and he and the others have all said the same thing ' if only we had this potential at OUR club ! everything is here' etc etc - they are very envious.

it's not fair to blame TO13 or the Dragons for the demise of RL in england is it ?

european rugby works successfully at RU level,so why not in our code ? Euopean competition has enhanced RU - the RFL are at least trying to progress with the same principles so why not try to encourage it ?

yes,I AM ignorant - sorry for being a french peasant,can't help my ancestry...

Starabug's? - on this subject he is.

Not been keeping fully up-to-date with this story - any latest?