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I would guess he means that the two points they were deducted in 2006 would have been deducted in 2005 instead, meaning they would have finished five points clear of Cas before any points deduction so the four points would have made no difference regarding Cas going down.

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Quote: MattyB "Breaching the cap is breaching the cap. You can't be a "little bit" pregnant.'"


True, however it's the nature of the breach that's in question.

When Saints, Bradford and Halifax all breached in the same year, that was down to poorly worded rules regarding 3rd party payments and player image rights. Because the RFL were partly to blame for the breach due to poor wording of the rules the clubs ended up with just 2 point deductions.

If Salford have two sets of books and have therefore deliberately set out to not only breach the cap but to smash it into a million pieces, then the RFL have to hit them with the most severe penalty that they can. Also, Bradford and Halifax could take some form of legal action as had Salford been penalised during the season they committed the offences (2015) then Salford would have finished bottom of the middle 8's and the million pound game would have been at Odsal between the two of them. Go one further, if Salford were doing this back in 2014 then Bradford have even more reason to be aggrieved as they'd not have been relegated.

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Quote: [Gareth] ""The thing with Wigan is that 'we' didnt actually break the salary cap i.e. we didnt spend more in that year on wages than we where allowed to. The payments where simply back-loaded into into the contracts which is common practice in plenty of sports (the NFL being a prime example)

The RFL had to be seen to be doing something about it so Wigan got charged with breaking the 'spirit of the cap' '"

Still in that African River regards cheating I see.

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Quote: roofaldo2 "True, however it's the nature of the breach that's in question.

When Saints, Bradford and Halifax all breached in the same year, that was down to poorly worded rules regarding 3rd party payments and player image rights. Because the RFL were partly to blame for the breach due to poor wording of the rules the clubs ended up with just 2 point deductions.

If Salford have two sets of books and have therefore deliberately set out to not only breach the cap but to smash it into a million pieces, then the RFL have to hit them with the most severe penalty that they can. Also, Bradford and Halifax could take some form of legal action as had Salford been penalised during the season they committed the offences (2015) then Salford would have finished bottom of the middle 8's and the million pound game would have been at Odsal between the two of them. Go one further, if Salford were doing this back in 2014 then Bradford have even more reason to be aggrieved as they'd not have been relegated.'"

I agree re the severity. This isn't like other cases in British RL and the only comparative example I can think of is the Melbourne case, which ended with large fines, large points deductions, club officials banned and some were even looking at criminal charges at one point.
I'm not sure re Bradford & Halifax taking legal advice. They'd have to prove the RFL were negligent in not uncovering the alleged deception before the end of the 2015 season. That would seem doubtful since all this came out with the Tony Puletua case.

If proved, this is THE most serious breach of operational rules as I can remember. I can't see what other case would warrant the maximum penalty so it has to be the full 20 points for me. As I've said previously, with the new system, give them a 15 point penalty for the regular season and a 5 point penalty in the 8's.

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Quote: Him "I agree re the severity. This isn't like other cases in British RL and the only comparative example I can think of is the Melbourne case, which ended with large fines, large points deductions, club officials banned and some were even looking at criminal charges at one point.
I'm not sure re Bradford & Halifax taking legal advice. They'd have to prove the RFL were negligent in not uncovering the alleged deception before the end of the 2015 season. That would seem doubtful since all this came out with the Tony Puletua case.

If proved, this is THE most serious breach of operational rules as I can remember. I can't see what other case would warrant the maximum penalty so it has to be the full 20 points for me. As I've said previously, with the new system, give them a 15 point penalty for the regular season and a 5 point penalty in the 8's.'"


I know that it seems logical but, would the operational rules within SL allow for a deduction to be split 15 + 5.
If not, this in itself would be open to a legal challenge from Salford (or any other club found to be deliberately breaking the cap).

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I would think that it would be a 20 point deduction for the season so that when the split occurred and remaining point deduction was carried over.

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Quote: Him ". If proved, this is THE most serious breach of operational rules as I can remember. I can't see what other case would warrant the maximum penalty so it has to be the full 20 points for me. As I've said previously, with the new system, give them a 15 point penalty for the regular season and a 5 point penalty in the 8's.'"


It seems to be the press that have decided the maximum penalty will be 20 points.
However, that has not come from the RFL.
The RFL statement says they have issues charges. Note the plural - more than one charge.
Each charge has a maximum penalty of 20 points, so they could be facing more than that. It could be that breaching the cap in two seasons has led to two charges, and therefore the maximum total penalty will be 40 points.
It could be that there is a separate charge for each player they have paid secretly (as each would be a separate offence), so it could be significantly higher than that.
Or it could be that they are found not guilty...

Wouldn't surprise me to see Koukash charged over his Twitter comments in the last 24 hours too. One abusinve tweet that wouldn't get past the swear filter on here and one saying he hates the RFL. He really is a fool.

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Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.:



is there something in the operational rules of the RFL that a club which takes legal action against the RFL has their membership of the RFL suspended for the duration of the legal action? Or is that just an urban myth?

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Quote: roofaldo2 "I would think that it would be a 20 point deduction for the season so that when the split occurred and remaining point deduction was carried over.'"


Assuming that they were in the "qualifiers" exactly how would the deduction be "carried over", everyone starts level in the Middle 8.

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If Koukash is that desperate to spend more money on Salford why doesn't he actually fund the Salford academy instead of going cap in hand to the fans and asking them to fund it?

Shows he still hasn't changed. Chasing instant success at all costs at the expense of building long term.

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[img:1ucbtp34]http://i62.tinypic.com/2hs0qkg.jpg[/img:1ucbtp34] [color=#BF0000:1ucbtp34]the [size=100:1ucbtp34]C[/size:1ucbtp34]laret [size=100:1ucbtp34]A[/size:1ucbtp34]nd [size=100:1ucbtp34]G[/size:1ucbtp34]old [size=100:1ucbtp34]M[/size:1ucbtp34]achine is ready to roll[/color:1ucbtp34] sunday September 1st 2013, when a dream became a reality!!:2115.jpg



is Marwan getting a bit annoyed that Beaumont at Leigh seems to be taking his prize cock award off him?

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I can't understand why the Salford fans are moaning and crying they are being picked on. Marwan knew there was a salary cap (although it appears not from day one!) and knows that all clubs are bound to abide with it or risk punishment. he's publicly stated he will break the cap, he's now found to have deliberately broken the cap by cheating- it clearly states in the rules that payments of this type must be declared as part of the cap. Salford aren't being picked on by the RFL, they are doing what they would do if they found any other club had done this. Other clubs have been dealt with under the rules as they stood at the time. When Wigan did what they did there were no rules to state that contracts couldn't be backloaded- there are now!!! That is why they weren't charged with breaking the cap but with breaking the "spirit" of the cap. It was like tax loopholes that people take advantage of - not against the rules but morally abhorrent.
As per the punishment - Salford were paying these players throughout the whole season and hence through both the regular and middle 8s. The punishment should reflect that.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I know that it seems logical but, would the operational rules within SL allow for a deduction to be split 15 + 5.
If not, this in itself would be open to a legal challenge from Salford (or any other club found to be deliberately breaking the cap).'"


Think this would be a good idea. It obviously depends on the severity of the breach (but it's looking like the most severe in the sport in this country for a while) if Salford start the middle 8s on zero, the new system is a farce and clubs might as well cheat as they don't have any punishment for the only meaningful part of the season.

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"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin [url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o] [url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o] This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif



How excruciating was it watching Hemmings and Clarke discuss this after the game on Friday?

Neither of them appear to have any idea about the events leading up to the charge. Hemmings was even asking why if the breaches are two years old they weren't picked up under the live cap so Salford could have been punished then.

Comes to something when supposed professional broadcasters about the sport haven't even bothered doing any basic research into the situation but still feel qualified to discuss it.

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