FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Wakey stadium plans collapse- again. |
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| Quote: barham red "Or wait til WT are in such a position that a new stadium would be not required, ie gone to the wall.'"
Maybe so, but, isn't the whole point that it's a Community Stadium in the similar way that Salford's ground was 'afforded' all be it from what appears to be a different type of funding arrangement and planning gain?
Therefore does the obligation go away if the rugby club folds, I would doubt it.
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "It does seem like a rum do indeed was the cold store on a different parcel of land, for example is the development made up of more than one title? I've seen green belt mentioned earlier in the thread and previously is there a green belt issue and is all the land in green belt or part of it hence a separate application and their potential S106 loop hole?
Mind you if it was all this simple you would have thought that their case would have been made as such rather than all this cloak and dagger stuff
Good luck it must be so frustrating and on the face of it unfair'"
AFAIK all the land was taken out of greenbelt except the plot for the stadium and sports facilities, which is allowable development. The cold store is on the same plot but they had to reapply because it was taller than the original planning permitted. This is where WMDC took "legal advice" saying that this would not now count towards the trigger point. Via a FoI request it was found that they had no record of such advice. The S106 applies to the land and any development on it. It can't be disaggregated. The former trust chairman was told this but didn't tell anyone else. It is also the source of the cas fans' urban myth that they warned us about this. Hindsight is a wonderful gift. This and the advice from WMDC not to bid for Belle Vue when the Bank of Ireland sold it are probably the basis of any court action.
Waiting for the club/trust response. MC's tweeted when the article was published "Just landed in Cyprus for family holiday. I can categorically state the Club pays its own rent! No further comment at this time #familytime"
Box is very careful how he uses information. The earlier meeting announcing an earlier new deal was done at a council meeting where the public could watch but not speak. His use of the local rag to give out information without informing or giving a chance to respond by the club/trust is legendary.
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| Quote: Mr Dog "I believe the Development has yet (even if the controversial cold store is included) to reach the critical size to trigger the stadium build. The developer is of course, according to Wake fans anyway, holding back on further building, and thus depriving themselves of profit and allowing potential customers to go elsewhere to avoid building the stadium!'"
Not exactly depriving themselves of profit, maybe Land banking hoping that the £15M? they would have spent on a stadium and sports facilities can go directly into their profit account. It seems they're well on their way to this goal - even Peter Box has stated they have no intention of building it. I wonder who's supposed to make sure that they do?
The S106 is not a good one. Perhaps the SoS was a bit naive/gullible when he stated that, as it was such a simple case, a unilateral agreement would suffice.
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| Quote: Fev 1979 "Always annoys me how fev,dewsbury and Batley can fund there OWN tidy stadiums but others can’t...
In 1998 when wakey beat fev in the final to go in super league they promised it then,,,18 years on and only one of them 2 clubs has spent money on its ground while getting far fewer through the gates'"
I agree, they have done a very good job.
Do these stadiums meet minimum SL standards? I don't think Dewsbury does as we were looking to share there.
BV has been unfit for purpose for more than 40 years and has been a expensive millstone for the club.
When Wakefield gained entry into SL they also initially got no central funding. The then chairman's only goal was to remain in SL and hope for future riches. All money was spent on the squad to achieve this. Although clearly still not enough to be competitive. He knew that relegation would be permanent, if not fatal at that time. Extra funding in those first seasons evaporated with the person who promised it. The biggest error came when he used the ground in a land investment scheme involving Sainsburys which collapsed at the start of the financial crisis meaning he lost ownership of the stadium.
Bigger crowds and central funding is irrelevant if it still doesn't cover costs.
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| Quote: Sir Kevin Sinfield "Wakefield and Castleford should stop being so stubborn and share a new stadium. Neither club can afford a stadium on their own and both currently have ancient stadia with terrible facilities.'"
Which stadium is this? Belle Vue, Wheldon Road or Post Office Road?
No-one has any money or land to build a new stadium or develop an existing one. Who is going to pay for it?
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| Quote: Tigerade "The "Steve Gill style cake" doesn't involve 15 million pounds of ratepayers money though does it.'"
We all know your just a troll, but. ..
No ratepayers money has been asked for or offered to build this stadium.
The local authority can borrow money for capital projects at extremely good rates in the current climate. The club already offered previously to pay the interest as part of the commercial rent until such time that Yorkcourt pay off the loan when they eventually develop NM. It would just be pump priming the project. Similar to the headingley deal by Leeds council.
It would not cost the council tax payers a penny. In fact, it would make them money and also benefit them from having community sports facilities for all to use.
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| All that sounds so easy as long as Yorkcourt achieve £15 million in profits. They have no intention of getting to the required amount of square metres needed on the 106 so I cannot see their ambition transferred into making up the shortfall. Why doesn't the club put in for a loan instead of the council having to take the risk ?
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| Quote: Tigerade "All that sounds so easy as long as Yorkcourt achieve £15 million in profits. They have no intention of getting to the required amount of square metres needed on the 106 so I cannot see their ambition transferred into making up the shortfall. Why doesn't the club put in for a loan instead of the council having to take the risk ?'"
Yes cos rugby league clubs can just go out and borrow 15m quid with no assets to speak of. Your idea is a good one though why don’t cas borrow the money to build their own stadium especially as the developer you were hoping would build you one for a quid seems to be struggling to come through.
I have nothing against cas but you have been trying to get a new ground for a while yourselves yet everyone seems to focus on our failure to do so whilst you get away relatively Scott free
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| Quote: Tigerade "All that sounds so easy as long as Yorkcourt achieve £15 million in profits. They have no intention of getting to the required amount of square metres needed on the 106 so I cannot see their ambition transferred into making up the shortfall. Why doesn't the club put in for a loan instead of the council having to take the risk ?'"
The location at NM is absolutely perfect for distribution warehouses. At some point someone will develop it and make huge amounts of money. Yorkcourt don't have a great reputation but the real problem is that the council are allowing,nay encouraging them to believe that if they wait the stadium and sports facilities issue will go away and they'll net and extra £15M. How much have they already made from the giant fridges? WMDC helped them get that for free.
The council should make it loud and clear that the payback to the Wakefield community is not negotiable and will not disappear. They spent the first few years denying it had anything to do with them. Still now they deflect all blame to others. It's time for them to get tough with the developers who they introduced to the scheme. They have the power to make this happen, but for some reason refuse to.
P.S. I would think the club would struggle to get a £50 overdraft never mind a £15M loan.... secured against what exactly?
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| Quote: Tricky2309 "I have nothing against cas but you have been trying to get a new ground for a while yourselves yet everyone seems to focus on our failure to do so whilst you get away relatively Scott free'"
Maybe because we aren't a desperate to move just yet. We own out own ground and there doesn't seem to be much pressure from the RFL to leave Wheldon road. Sky love showing our home games and (poor facilities aside) we generally get good raps from away supporters who appreciate the atmosphere.
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| Quote: coco the fullback "P.S. I would think the club would struggle to get a £50 overdraft never mind a £15M loan.... secured against what exactly?'"
Yes - I get that but I cannot see the council putting their names down as the fall guy who will have to foot the bill when the developer doesn't have the cash to pay up. Too much risk for Wakefield Trinity and equally too much risk for WMDC and it's ratepayers.
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| Quote: Tigerade "Yes - I get that but I cannot see the council putting their names down as the fall guy who will have to foot the bill when the developer doesn't have the cash to pay up. Too much risk for Wakefield Trinity and equally too much risk for WMDC and it's ratepayers.'"
In the mean time, the club service the low interest loan, costing the tax payer nothing. It gives the council a reason to pursue the developer, not that they should need one. It also needs an arrangement for any stadium that allows the business to prosper. If it can't make money in the new stadium then there will be problems in the future.
The site is too good not to be developed. It's time to stop playing games.
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| double post
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| Triple post who knows what's going on with my internet connection here.
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| Quote: coco the fullback "The developer is just playing games and being allowed to do so. The low interest loan will be serviced by the club, at no cost the rate payer, until such time that the developer satisfies its obligations. The council need to get on with their job of making sure these obligations are met.'"
Who services the loan should Wakefield trinity go out of business?
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