FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Is the Championship a sustainable competition? |
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| Quote: GUBRATS "Ah , so it's the I want franchises , as long as my club gets one ?
You seriously think Bradford , the club that has gone into admin twice while under franchising in SL would get another ?
You seriously think Bradford , the club that has gone into admin after 2 years in the Championship would be able to build off field to get a SL franchise ?
You presume far too much my friend'"
So taking what I have said out of context......to make things absolutely clear for you.........
In a franchise system, I would be more than confident of Bradford securing a license. However if we did not get one (providing the criteria was fair and we didn't match it) then I would take it on the chin. We haven't been in the SL for 2 years and yet I still tune in each week as I love the sport. However for the game to grow and be sustainable, I strongly believe my idea would work (ie. Franchising/merges). Everyone has an opinion which is fine.
For the record I was one person who wanted Leigh to get a licence in the last franchising period as at the time I felt they deserved it more than Wakey, Cas, Widnes, Crusaders and to an extent ourselves.
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Quote: Bulls Boy 2011 "
For the record I was one person who wanted Leigh to get a licence in the last franchising period as at the time I felt they deserved it more than Wakey, Cas, Widnes, Crusaders and to an extent ourselves.'"
They deserved it more did they? Ha!
www.leighjournal.co.uk/sport/lei ... e/?ref=rss
They were doing even worse than the teams you mentioned during the last franchising period.
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Quote: Bulls Boy 2011 "
For the record I was one person who wanted Leigh to get a licence in the last franchising period as at the time I felt they deserved it more than Wakey, Cas, Widnes, Crusaders and to an extent ourselves.'"
They deserved it more did they? Ha!
www.leighjournal.co.uk/sport/lei ... e/?ref=rss
They were doing even worse than the teams you mentioned during the last franchising period.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "I'm sure that he can answer for himself but, the people who suggest some of the mergers just haven't got a clue about the rivalries that exist between the clubs that they want to force together.
Perhaps if Bradford merge with Leeds, that would be one less problem ??
Can you imagine FC and KR merging or Warrington and Widnes ??
Get a grip.
On the contrary I am fully aware of rivalries. Sometimes (and very rarely) the game needs to put aside these rivalries in order to grow. The underlined part of your quote is clearly a dig. My support of Bradford aside, on paper those two clubs have both been massive in RL especially Leeds who have been fantastic from 2003 to the present and have been highly consistent with crowds, results, youth production and finances. Bradford have only failed in finances really. Under the new franchise system this wouldn't happen to any club.
The mergers were a suggestion based on geographical location. For example, Cumbria is supposed to be a hotbed for RL. Yet excluding Workington's appearance in early SL the Cumbrian teams have been poor. So a merge between the Cumbrian teams to pool their resources and have first refusal on Cumbria born players. Install a good youth set up and this cumbrian side could be producing quality on a regular basis. That team would be worthy of SL, then a Championship club would be established where players who don't make the cut can go play in order to impress to try get another chance.
Ironically you say can I imagine FC and KR merging and Warrington and Widnes. Maybe not. FC and KR are 50 miles away from any other team. RL is pretty much the main sport there even though they have a Premier League team. They have already merged their academy though which is one step towards my vision? Funnily enough I bet fans 'couldn't see' the North Sydney Bears and Manly merging.....yet they did.
I know the RFL are slowly killing the game here but the fans are partially to blame too for not trying new things, shooting down ideas because they don't like change or it doesn't suit them.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Why?'"
Well, would a merged club of Wakey, Fev and Cas pull in punters from not only from that area but from the rest of Yorkshire? No - there'd be a lack of identification and that's a big reason why people support who they support.
There'd be too many problems with mergers that it would be too much hassle anyway.
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| Quote: Willzay "They deserved it more did they? Ha!
The only positive at that time was the LSV , which the RFL refused to acknowledge as existing , requesting we resubmit our application with Hilton Park as our home , the LSV stadium was 85% complete at the time and Nigel had recently had a tour round it
Leigh , a franchise ? , no chance
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| Quote: Bulls Boy 2011 "On the contrary I am fully aware of rivalries. Sometimes (and very rarely) the game needs to put aside these rivalries in order to grow. The underlined part of your quote is clearly a dig. My support of Bradford aside, on paper those two clubs have both been massive in RL especially Leeds who have been fantastic from 2003 to the present and have been highly consistent with crowds, results, youth production and finances. Bradford have only failed in finances really. Under the new franchise system this wouldn't happen to any club. '"
Why wouldn't it ?
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Why?'"
The point is, should you smash 2 clubs and start again in the HOPE of creating something bigger/better.
There is little desire for merger between Wakefield and Castleford, with the position of the fans more entrenched than ever before and ironically, this is partly as a result of the franchise experiment when it appeared that one or other of these clubs would fail to make the cut plus, the long standing battle to move to new stadia.
Many fans of these two clubs would not wish to follow a merged club and while this would possibly change over a long period of time, there would be a risk of killing off 2 SL clubs to create something smaller, which would be a backward step.
Again, the involvement of the WMDC council leader, who seems to champion anything Castleford and be less than helpful towards Wakefield's plight is another reason why a merger just wouldn't work.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Again, the involvement of the WMDC council leader, who seems to champion anything Castleford and be less than helpful towards Wakefield's plight is another reason why a merger just wouldn't work.'"
Regarding Wakefield "plight" Wrencat. You've forgot to mention Uncle Ted, Glover, Yorkcourt and and general apathy from the people of Wakefield to support their club. Other than that spot-on.
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| Quote: Tigerade "Regarding Wakefield "plight" Wrencat. You've forgot to mention Uncle Ted, Glover, Yorkcourt and and general apathy from the people of Wakefield to support their club. Other than that spot-on.
Both Richardson and Glover gambled on the new stadium happening and both lost heavily.
As for Yorkcourt, they have been let off the hook, seemingly with the help of WMDC.
However, I dont think they are the reasons that the fans of both clubs dont want to follow a merged club, you just wanted to take your chance for a sideways dig
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| You need to paint a fuller picture then Wrencat. WMDC have done no less for WTW of Fev than they have for Cas Tigers.
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| Quote: Tigerade "You need to paint a fuller picture then Wrencat. WMDC have done no less for WTW of Fev than they have for Cas Tigers.'"
Unless you count ignoring their own, and national, planning guidelines when granting planning permission for the 5 Towns Park development........
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| Quote: Tigerade "You need to paint a fuller picture then Wrencat. WMDC have done no less for WTW of Fev than they have for Cas Tigers.'"
Fev have certainly had the crap end of the stick and have done a fantastic job of upgrading Post Office road.
However, the"community stadium" at Glasshoughton, which will belong to Castleford Tigers (not the community) has the full backing and support of WMDC, unlike the Newmarket development which Mr Box has said publically, is a matter "between Wakefield Community Trust and the developer" and that WMDC are "not involved", when they clearly were at the time when plans were originally passed a mere 5 years ago, not to mention passing plans for "the big white box", originally included within the Newmarket site but, actually built outside of it, clearly affecting the trigger point for the stadium build.
So, you cant talk about them being impartial etc, etc.
Their actions have had a profound and negative effect on plans to build a "community stadium", which would be owned by the community and not by Wakefield Trinity.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "The point is, should you smash 2 clubs and start again in the HOPE of creating something bigger/better.
There is little desire for merger between Wakefield and Castleford, with the position of the fans more entrenched than ever before and ironically, this is partly as a result of the franchise experiment when it appeared that one or other of these clubs would fail to make the cut plus, the long standing battle to move to new stadia.
Many fans of these two clubs would not wish to follow a merged club and while this would possibly change over a long period of time, there would be a risk of killing off 2 SL clubs to create something smaller, which would be a backward step.
Again, the involvement of the WMDC council leader, who seems to champion anything Castleford and be less than helpful towards Wakefield's plight is another reason why a merger just wouldn't work.'"
But again you are thinking about it in terms of a merged team simply trying to be the sum of two parts. When it wouldn't (or shouldnt) You're looking at the market of a merged Wakefield and Castleford side as the 10k or so who are the hard-core of the current clubs when the aim would be at the 300k other people in the area without an affiliation (or a casual one).
Look at it from completely the opposite direction. Both wmdc clubs aren't big enough. Both will tell you there are areas of expansion for both clubs in terms of fan catchment Whatever is available to Wakefield or Castleford in terms of NEW fans is available to a merged side. Ergo Merged side has the entire catchment area for news fans where as Cas and Wakefield would each have their own smaller bit and be in competition for the rest of it.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "But again you are thinking about it in terms of a merged team simply trying to be the sum of two parts. When it wouldn't (or shouldnt) You're looking at the market of a merged Wakefield and Castleford side as the 10k or so who are the hard-core of the current clubs when the aim would be at the 300k other people in the area without an affiliation (or a casual one).
Look at it from completely the opposite direction. Both wmdc clubs aren't big enough. Both will tell you there are areas of expansion for both clubs in terms of fan catchment Whatever is available to Wakefield or Castleford in terms of NEW fans is available to a merged side. Ergo Merged side has the entire catchment area for news fans where as Cas and Wakefield would each have their own smaller bit and be in competition for the rest of it.'"
I fully understand what you are saying.
However, your supposition is that one big new club will be more attractive than 2 smaller "local" clubs.
In the longer term, it may well be, although this is pure conjecture.
If we really want to slice and dice the current SL clubs then lets go the whole hog.
Get rid of the lot and have a franchise in each major county across the country, plus 1 or 2 in Wales, 1 0r 2 in Scotland and a couple in Ireland.
I'm sure that it will work in the long term, just as it may do if Castleford and Wakefield merged.
Part of the attraction of RL as it stands are the local derby games and losing some of these would be a backward step.
Remember, this thread started on the back of Bradford going pop and whether the Championship is sustainable.
Anything is sustainable if the cost base is right, in relation to the spend going the other way and perhaps the better question would be: can the Championship be a full time professional league and if so, is there sufficient income to sustain it.
Clearly, as it stands the answer is no.
So, what should we do ?
Either accept that it should be a semi-professional league, with no realistic pathway to SL or, wait for the next club to overstretch itself whilst "chasing the dream".
Of course, the bottom line to all these things is funding and it seems that most sports have accepted that there should be 1 elite league with a gulf to the rest.
RL is trying to have things every which way and it's turning the game into a joke.
IF we want a competitive second tier comp, with clubs in the Championship on a similar footing to those in SL then, Nigel Wood & Co need to get their backsides over to SKY towers and demand some more money and maybe we can have 2 divisions of full time professional clubs but, until then, we should probably promote London & KR into SL and pull up the drawbridge.
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| In many respects the history and how our sport came about plays a big hand in the objections to regional teams with true franchising even if it would probably be the best way forward for the sport over the next 50 years and further.
We certainly aren't nor have made any progression, in fact I'd say we've gone backwards at a rate of knots compared to other sports not just RU.
it's because of that identity, that history, that belonging to what your forbears did also and the pride and passion that will hold us back in the end.
For me if it was a case of lose my club for the sake of the sport as a whole not just for my generation but future generations then so be it. As an FC fan I would much rather watch an East Riding team for instance than see the game I grew up continue to struggle and fall by the way-side which is what will happen eventually (not 10/20 or even 30 years but it will happen) if we carry on with the cretins in charge of the sport and the many 'chippy' Northerners who think expansion should be no more than building a few bogs and putting a corrugated roof over the terraces
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