Yes, because that's exactly what I'm saying...

Seriously, why do so many people on this forum choose to make up their own strawman argument to argue against?

Anyway, back to the point...

It doesn't matter how many clubs there are in the UK (or should that just be the north of England?) compared to Europe. It doesn't mean they should all enter the same way through the same linear ladder system.

Entry requirements for SL should be completely different for clubs outside the British professional system. If it was practical to have professional French clubs in the British system, they'd already be in it. There's plenty of pro French clubs as stands that draw bigger crowds than plenty of British ones. They're not in the British league because it's not logistical. It would waste thousands (if not millions) of Euros.

To suggest that French clubs should come through the British system to get into a European league is basically suggesting French clubs shouldn't be in a European league because they'd never be able to get through the British system due to the huge handicap they'd face in travel, expenses and player recruitment at that level. Who the hell would want to work part time AND play rugby in a different country every two weeks when they can do that in their own country without having to travel?

Completely short sighted.

I'm going to back Gutterfax on one of his points here. He does have a point that NZ RL also only have one fulltime pro outfit and his Norman Tebbit arguement that NZ players get on their bikes and go to find work in Oz may hold some water.

However, how many of those players in Australia have actually come through a NZ system?? Or is it just that their parents moved, had kids in Australia and so there is more crossover through parental legacy than through players actually getting on their bikes so to speak.

There does seem more cross over of populations down under even given the distances involved.

Super League will require the bottom 3 to be relegated in 2014 in order to accommodate Toulouse in 2015. Is this likely to be ratified any time soon?

Some super league clubs woudnt scout if the kids were playing in their own back yard (which is literally the case sometimes). In fact a worrying majority don't scout beyond a couple of amateur clubs. Those that do put the time and effort to find potential have the pick of the bunch therefore so don't need to cast the net out wider. Result is, a first class team is required in a particular area for those kids to be found, meaning clubs like London and Catalans (and Toulouse potentially) are all the more important.

How quickly do you think you'd here stories of kids in London being picked up by super league clubs, if every club in Yorkshire were fighting over the best youngsters?

..it's because the games administration, in general, is run like a badly run women's institute, where new people elected to positions of seniority are selected on who they know or who their husband plays golf with!

It has nothing to do with the lack of things to do here in New Zealand. As I type this I am running a data match for a mail-merge and a 30,000 direct mailing that will make me enough money to pay my mortgages for 3 months.....so in reality, I get paid to post on here
...and it's a gloriously sunny day, so I may go to the beach later...

Argument ??? I suggest you research what an argument is and the differences between that and a question. If Toulouse are upto SL get them in especially if the 8x3 comes in but would they just become another soulless club with a squad full of Aussies with 750 fans (as seen before)

Again what system do you propose to see if a European club is upto SL (Catalan) and which are not (Every other expansion club apart from Catalans) ???

When you ask implying questions, you're using it as an argument. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I suggest you leave that there.


They won't survive outside the top flight. As said, he logistics just won't work. A European league concept will only work if it's the top level IMO. There just won't be the sponsors or a TV interest to make it viable otherwise.
The logistics of getting a squad together to play every other week in another country whilst part time are the reason why it wasn't successful last time. No point in repeating the same.


I propose we follow the model that worked with Catalans at the very least.

I've offered another model on another forum that received a lot of support from other posters. I may put it up later but it's pretty long-winded.

I honestly think RL fans need to change their thinking on what the very top tier of RL needs to be. It should drive TV deals, media covg, corporate involvement, inspire kids to take up the game and be a showcase for what RL can be at it's very best. The notion that bringing in more clubs with small canvases, small stadia and no money within spitting distance of each other just to preserve the romantic notion of promotion is not the future IMO. A SL with fixed teams generating what the game needs to grow is what we need to aim for. The second tier can still be vibrant, draw people to play and watch the game and be worthwhile and if expansion of SL warrants it then by all means have a expansion programme.

I guess having lived with the NRL for over a decade now and seen the model work extremely effectively I am biased but the notion bringing in fev,fax or Leigh is going to change SL current problems is wishful thinkiing.

I'm OFF FOR A LIE DOWN!

...agreeing with you ain't right...it's just not kosher!

Again, I dont neccessarily disagree, but both SL and Championship clubs do, licencing isnt creating sponsorship,media,fan interest in the game at any level, and again it is THE SL clubs that want and have the power to change it

Lets not start blaming the lower tier clubs for this, all they can do is what they are told ,as for Toulouse, then yes with P and R, the only way you can bring them in is with the same safeguards the Catalans had

Very well put JB.

I'd only agree if we had 14 clubs that were pulling their weight. We don't. We have various clubs in financial strife performing poorly against many of the criteria unable to live with licensing. What's the point in keeping them in SL? All they're going to do is get in more debt, not build.

There are a large number of clubs of a similar level. Personally I think they should just go with P&R and give one if them a chance to break into a big club. Licensing is not only completely flawed, it's bloody dull.

Has anybody got a phone number or the home address of our resident faux Frenchman I'm starting to think something might have happened to him, I think somebody needs to pop round to make sure he hasn't choked on his frogs legs he should have been all over this thread

The reason NRL is massive and SL isn't has everything to do with history and culture and very little to do with promotion and relegation.