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Wrost ref in SL. He is just like Jamie Leahy. No common sense and follows the rule book to the letter. His performance at MM was bad but still doesn't come close to the worst display by a ref
Jamie Leahy
Hudds V Cas in 2006.
Anyone got a copy of it? How to lose control of a game by being inept, and then tip players over the edge by taking a team back 20 meters instead of 10, and sin bin them when they point out you are a fool.

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Quote: who needs flankers? "
How to lose control of a game by being inept, '"



Salford 22 St helens 56

Bulls 10 Wigan 44

Workington 82 Gateshead 0

Applies to these as well this inept stuff?

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Quote: Leaguefan "Salford 22 St helens 56

Bulls 10 Wigan 44

Workington 82 Gateshead 0

Applies to these as well this inept stuff?'"


In the case of Salford you are getting confused with the term crap, or I would have also accepted :
This seasons dark horse? Only if's a dark horse on it's way to the glue factory!

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Quote: pyeman "icon_lol.gif

When did westerman make his debut again in the year cas finished bottom wasnt it? According to the Cas fan on that threads logic he must be the worst player in the world.

Its not a you to have point go wooshing over your head is it? Oh............

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Quote: SmokeyTA "so this is now the third time you are telling me you agree, is the a reason behind the repetition?'"


It seemed that you either didn't understand or didn't want to understand the point being made

A Leigh fan ( not me ) commented on a good performance by the refferee at the LSV , he commented on a display he witnessed , you passed comment on a display you hadn't witnessed ( unless you did attend the match against Sheffield )

So who's comment should we believe , the person who witnessed it , or the person who didn't ?

It doesn't bother me either way , I don't call any refs , as I said earlier , a very difficult job considering the amount of cheating that goes on at all games

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Quote: Starbug "It seemed that you either didn't understand or didn't want to understand the point being made

A Leigh fan ( not me ) commented on a good performance by the refferee at the LSV , he commented on a display he witnessed , you passed comment on a display you hadn't witnessed ( unless you did attend the match against Sheffield )

So who's comment should we believe , the person who witnessed it , or the person who didn't ?

It doesn't bother me either way , I don't call any refs , as I said earlier , a very difficult job considering the amount of cheating that goes on at all games'"

I havent passed comment on the Leigh/Sheffield game at all. In fact I have specifically mentioned that i havent passed comment on it.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "I havent passed comment on the Leigh/Sheffield game at all. In fact I have specifically mentioned that i havent passed comment on it.'"


And yet you did pass comment on that fans opinion of the referees display , despite you not witnessing it icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Starbug "And yet you did pass comment on that fans opinion of the referees display , despite you not witnessing it No I didnt. Maybe you would like to show the class where I did this.

Or more likely you can show us the post where you think i did this and i can point out where you went wrong (even though it will be obvious to everyone except one particular confused old man)

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Quote: Captain Library "I think it comes back to this idea of "common sense" refereeing. James clearly knows the book inside out (surprised if he can turn its sticky pages anymore) but doesn't exercise any kind of "spirit of the game" into his refereeing.

Yes, offences need to be punished. Especially things like headshots, spears/throws, professional fouls, backchat, blatant holding down (and holding the tackler down, SAM TOMKINS!
Totally agree with the points raised in this post, especially the highlighted bit!

The spirit of the game is absolutely key here I think. There is nothing more likely to lose an sporting argument than the phrase 'letter of the law' in my humble opinion. I have recently been tearing my hair out with some of my footballing supporting mates. So obsessed with 'what the laws say technically', whether there was 'any contact at all', etc. Kept having to remind them that despite appearances to the contrary it is supposed to be a contact sport! When I mentioned 'spirit of the game' in the context of whether a player was deliberately cheating of not I was presented with a room of blank faces. But I shouldn't be surprised, these are people who think that a ball struck at 60mph from one yard away, hitting an opponent on the arm is a deliberate handball! If I can't get the idea of' playing at the ball' through to them, 'the spirit of the game' has no chance.

And this is my fear that RL abandons spirit of the game for letter of the law, which it seems is entirely being championed by referees like Child. It seems they are looking for a reason to get involved, like over-zealous parking wardens... no just parking wardens... they are looking for an excuse to penalise players rather than looking to let the game flow. Ganson seems have a schizophrenic approach to this in that one week he appears to apply common sense and the next week sets a SL penalty record! This leads to the whole inconsistency issue but it's refs like Child and Bentham who apply the law to a nth degree (and in Child's case miss a load of stuff as well) that really pose a danger to the sport long term.

I'd much rather follow the spirit of the game approach as in cricket than the the one prevailing in football, but I do worry that our refs do not seem to posses the reason required to understand a player's intentions when carrying out an action on the field. You are never going to get a common sense approach from referees unless they possess enough nous to understand what players are trying to do - whether that's in the spirit of the game or not. In the case of Child it's a definite fail on that score. Couple that with missing the obvious stuff, and huge arrogance and you have one particularly poor referee.

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Interesting that cricket gets brought into the discussion. Aren't an overwhelming majority of first class cricket umpires guys who have played the game to at least county level and can therefore have a bit of empathy with the players?

How many of the current crop of full-time match officials have played the game at pro or semi-pro level?

While I appreciate the physical demands of the sports are vastly different, could part of the issue that rugby and football have with match officials be that by having mandatory retirement ages they reduce the opportunities for ex-pros to progress through the ranks as match officials?

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Quote: who needs flankers? "Wrost ref in SL. He is just like Jamie Leahy. No common sense and follows the rule book to the letter.'"



So it's ok for referees to NOT follow the rule book?

Interesting concept.

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Quote: Andy Gilder "Interesting that cricket gets brought into the discussion. Aren't an overwhelming majority of first class cricket umpires guys who have played the game to at least county level and can therefore have a bit of empathy with the players?

How many of the current crop of full-time match officials have played the game at pro or semi-pro level?

While I appreciate the physical demands of the sports are vastly different, could part of the issue that rugby and football have with match officials be that by having mandatory retirement ages they reduce the opportunities for ex-pros to progress through the ranks as match officials?'"

Seem to remember that Russell Smith was an ex Castleford player who took up refereeing when injury finished his playing career and I don't remember him having an overwhelmingly large fan club in these parts!

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Quote: Andy Gilder "Interesting that cricket gets brought into the discussion. Aren't an overwhelming majority of first class cricket umpires guys who have played the game to at least county level and can therefore have a bit of empathy with the players?

How many of the current crop of full-time match officials have played the game at pro or semi-pro level?

While I appreciate the physical demands of the sports are vastly different, could part of the issue that rugby and football have with match officials be that by having mandatory retirement ages they reduce the opportunities for ex-pros to progress through the ranks as match officials?'"


I think it's more that cricket has always had the spirit of the game ethos, right since the 'Gentlemen and Players' era when professionals (players) were allowed to compete so long as the spirit of the game was upheld. Also, perhaps more obviously, the convention applied to all participants in the game - both umpires and the players, so that everyone was singing from the same hymm sheet so to speak.The more general 'sportsmanship' or 'fair play', applied to other sports, does not seem to do the job - especially when serious money enters the sport alla football. It is noticeable that a game like cricket has no shortage of areas a cynical team could exploit in order to win yet examples what might be termed underhand tactics (Trevor Chappell's underarm ball, etc) are held in such disregard that they are not repeated, and most importantly do not become ingrained in the game itself, as in football with diving for example.

Of course RL is a very different sport to cricket and is thankfully not afraid to change it's ruleset. This is one of many reasons why it is a far superior sport than professional Rugby Union which is intransigent and is a sport where underhand and cynical tactics are allowed to prevail over more honest styles of play. However as the discussion is about the referee's role within this, it really is quite simple for even a simple minded person(i.e. a referee) to follow: They just need to take a moment to assess whether a team has been infringed enough to warrant blowing the whistle. Was that last tackle against the spirit of the game - deliberate and designed to hurt the player, or was it simply an honest tackle that looked worse than it was. That kind of thing. In this case it probably would help if the refs had some playing experience but it should not be necessary. Most of us watching on TV (from a neutral point of view, not when our team is playing!) can call the game pretty well, we know a player's intentions, etc and we know when there has been a tackle so bad that you cannot use discretion. It's not rocket science, even for a referee!

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Quote: PHIPPS "So it's ok for referees to NOT follow the rule book?

Interesting concept.'"


Well none of the coaches or players do!!!

There is a dangerous assumption there as well.

There are not that many followers of the game who know the laws as well, as can be seen by the posts on this site icon_thumb.gif

Which all makes for the great game that it is.

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Quote: PHIPPS "So it's ok for referees to NOT follow the rule book?

Interesting concept.'"


It's called jurisprudence. The courts of the UK use it as a tool to read between the lines of law to clarify any grey areas. If it's good enough for them i'm sure it's good enough for super league. c020.gif

You really enjoy deliberately misinterpreting things people say then coming out with ridiculous statements don't you? Either that or you are just plain thick!

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