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J20
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This isn't a sleeping giant, it's a giant! Denis Betts Nov 2010 Twitter: @JoeyViking:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45011.jpg



Quote: Inflatable_Armadillo "I can't believe you can't grasp this, for start they will have another three years if they do bring back promotion & relegation.

So, with your rules Salford, Castleford, Wakey and now also Saints have to give up before the deadline. That is fine, someone tell Salford Council that they can keep there £20m because it is all over before the have even filled out the application forms. There is no point in investing in us because we are are all in NL1.

Widnes, Leigh & Halifax and one other are in, done deal... so now how does the system look and how do the RFL look? That's right, we are not interested in anyone investing in these 4 clubs anyway we never wanted them to get new facilities and new grounds... they all just looked like they could have the potential to be as successful as Warrington and who wants that. Widnes, Leigh and Halifax have great grounds as well, we don't need any more!'"


Surely you can see an issue were sides outside SL are expected to have up to scratch facilities on what 1/5 of the budget with no SKY money etc yet some sides in SL have happily just took every penny and invested it where exatcly?

Leigh got their stadium done in time for 2008, Widnes got ours sorted outside of SL, why should anyone else with much more money coming in be any different? Save the economy excuse as well as sides ignored the good times to fill the directors pockets!

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: John Charnock "It also gets complicated if all three get their stadiums built (which I know you don't think is possible, Starbug).'"


Saints and Salford will have part built stadia by this time next year , it will be plain to see , there will be steelwork and concrete , but both will struggle to be finished for feb 2012

Cas and Wakey ? , Who knows if they will even have started but one thing is certain , they need to build them no matter what or where they end up , it cannot be a , no SL , no stadium situaton

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[b:1swa1vwo]Change is inevitable ...except from a vending machine![/b:1swa1vwo] [quote="BillyRhino":1swa1vwo]So in best IA mode ..<.Possibley World Class, could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....am personally very excited, and confidently expect him to prove my predictions are bang on target.... Alternatively he could be rubbish> IA mode off. :wink:[/quote:1swa1vwo]:33791.jpg



Quote: J20 "TBF unlike the Wakey board we don't respond to his posts with 'praise be to the Lord' so may actually differ in opinions
Wakefield have already said that Newmarket will not be ready for the start of the 2012 season and will be ready in April/May.... so that means they should stop and not bother then? The fact that in the next few weeks they could be (and I say only could be) in a position to confirm everything and get legally binding contracts in place AND start work on site prior to the formal announcement/decision should now count for nothing now then?

Ok, now I am being overly sarcastic but the point I am making is they have to give all the clubs right up to the deadline to get things sorted. If they don't they are pre-judging things. But also they do want to be sure that if contracts and deals are done that they are water-tight. The issue with the current SL clubs is that if they have indeed committed to contracts for new builds then you really have got to keep them in SL, it is a harsh reality but if you don't you are going to most probably send them to the wall!

Yorkcourt are not going to build empty units BTW, they will only build them when they have tenants for them. Colin Mackie of Yorkcourt has said in the Wakefield Express this morning that he expects the site to take 7 years to fill. Developers like this are in it for the long hall but they know you need to spend money to make money and they will probably still retain ownership of the land for the ground anyway!

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Quote: J20 "Not really as Wakefiekd at last bids promised a move to a new rugby stadium. So to last min say oh were going to Barnsley wouldn't fit for me. At least Saints were clear about Widnes move if Wajey throw Barnsley cover inbit would just be more desperation again and another unfilled promise on stadium after years of plenty gone by.'"


I see where youre coming from,but i also see a slight dilemma.

Wakefield have already announced that they wont be at Belle Vue in 2012.

Come what may next season is the last at Belle Vue.

So if they do have a subsequent plan to play out of Oakwell while building is complete,i dont see how the RFL would have any option but to assess their facilities based on Oakwell.

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Quote: Starbug " ... it cannot be a "no SL, no stadium" situation.'"

I agree with Starbug (but I did take a few liberties with his punctuation to ease the shock).

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Quote: J20 "Problem here is as we've seen before a club will get the npd and then they could still say oh well X funding didn't actually come off or we thought this permission / safety issue would be covered by now and it isn't. That stuff can still happen after Savilles review.

As Starbug say's overall they will just be used as a tool to hide behind. They got lucky Widnes as a club didn't go against them after last round and Tricky Dicky got quite pally with SO'C to ensure we didn't cause any issues and we'll be rewarded for that. However they know if / when they boot a SL side out due to more severe financially implications they will be hit back at hard no matter who it is, so are simply looking for people to hide behind.

Lewis got utteryly burnt on NW tonight after last round of franchises so will now use this Rimmer bloke to have a full set of answers lined up and prob walk away the day after annnouncements to save any 'lay blame' messages.'"


Savilles will do as professional a job as possible to establish whether a stadium will be ready for Feb 2012. The RFL are behaving professionally by getting advice from specialists. Using Savilles reduces the likelihood of clubs playing fast and loose. It makes it even harder for them to cry foul after the decisions in July 2011.

Whether they use spcialists or not some people are desperate to bag the RFL.

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Quote: TURFEDOUT "I see where youre coming from,but i also see a slight dilemma.

Wakefield have already announced that they wont be at Belle Vue in 2012.

Come what may next season is the last at Belle Vue.

So if they do have a subsequent plan to play out of Oakwell while building is complete,i dont see how the RFL would have any option but to assess their facilities based on Oakwell.'"


Unfortunately it's not that simple. Oakwell is not a long term option.

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This isn't a sleeping giant, it's a giant! Denis Betts Nov 2010 Twitter: @JoeyViking:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45011.jpg



Quote: Starbug ", it cannot be a , no SL , no stadium situaton'"


100% agree. Anyone who takes that attitude should be booted out IMO. RL needs teams who will use the SKY & RFL money to make the competition stronger at club and international level. All these clubs who live on that money to pay off various debts etc are in effect just a drain on our debt. Personally I really can't believe after 12 years or so Wakey haven't grew much further as a club despite the money and have what one playoff win, one cup semi to show for it on the pitch? Cone on that ain't right surely? If you can't afford to be in SL (sane for us in 2007 btw) then why not let someone else have a go why you take a few years in Championship? What they should if done with Crusaders and tbh Quins now too.

It's hard to stay competitive and develop in SL so drop down sort stadium & set up then come back much stronger.

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[b:1swa1vwo]Change is inevitable ...except from a vending machine![/b:1swa1vwo] [quote="BillyRhino":1swa1vwo]So in best IA mode ..<.Possibley World Class, could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....am personally very excited, and confidently expect him to prove my predictions are bang on target.... Alternatively he could be rubbish> IA mode off. :wink:[/quote:1swa1vwo]:33791.jpg



Quote: Starbug "Leigh did it , Widnes did it , Doncaster did it , Fax have done it

It isn't me that is making the stadium the issue here , it is the RFL , problem is they are that thick , they couldn't see this coming'"


You are spot on mate and if they don't make it in time then they will have to go down and do it the hard way like those clubs. Also, don't think I don't think that they deserve a place in SL because they may well do, but the point is here, is that the RFL have given them a deadline and made the new stadia the no 1 issue. If they do get started before the RFL deadline and Savills are convinced they are as water-tight as possible can you not see that they have to be allowed into SL.

I agree that Widnes and maybe Leigh should have got in last time but that was then and this is now. I don't support any of these clubs but not to allow them to at least try and get themselves sorted and if they do, turn them down because they are going to be 6 months late would be madness.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Inflatable_Armadillo "Wakefield have already said that Newmarket will not be ready for the start of the 2012 season and will be ready in April/May.... so that means they should stop and not bother then? The fact that in the next few weeks they could be (and I say only could be) in a position to confirm everything and get legally binding contracts in place AND start work on site prior to the formal announcement/decision should now count for nothing now then?

Ok, now I am being overly sarcastic but the point I am making is they have to give all the clubs right up to the deadline to get things sorted. If they don't they are pre-judging things. But also they do want to be sure that if contracts and deals are done that they are water-tight. The issue with the current SL clubs is that if they have indeed committed to contracts for new builds then you really have got to keep them in SL, it is a harsh reality but if you don't you are going to most probably send them to the wall!

Yorkcourt are not going to build empty units BTW, they will only build them when they have tenants for them. Colin Mackie of Yorkcourt has said in the Wakefield Express this morning that he expects the site to take 7 years to fill. Developers like this are in it for the long hall but they know you need to spend money to make money and they will probably still retain ownership of the land for the ground anyway!'"


And the clubs also should be in it for the long haul , and if some of that includes playing in the Championship and having to prove themselves as fit for SL , so be it

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Quote: Chris Dalton "Unfortunately it's not that simple. Oakwell is not a long term option.'"


I agree its not simple.

But if people dont want a club to be assessed on a stadia that might/might not be ready and as in Wakefields case,they wont be at their current home -- what can they assess their facilities on?

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Inflatable_Armadillo "You are spot on mate and if they don't make it in time then they will have to go down and do it the hard way like those clubs. Also, don't think I don't think that they deserve a place in SL because they may well do, but the point is here, is that the RFL have given them a deadline and made the new stadia the no 1 issue. If they do get started before the RFL deadline and Savills are convinced they are as water-tight as possible can you not see that they have to be allowed into SL.

I agree that Widnes and maybe Leigh should have got in last time but that was then and this is now. I don't support any of these clubs but not to allow them to at least try and get themselves sorted and if they do, turn them down because they are going to be 6 months late would be madness.'"


All the stadium criteria is madness , but if you have it , you have to have a cut off date , that cut off date last time was the decision date , it shpould be the same again , tough call i know , but somewhere you have to draw a line

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: TURFEDOUT "I agree its not simple.

But if people dont want a club to be assessed on a stadia that might/might not be ready and as in Wakefields case,they wont be at their current home -- what can they assess their facilities on?'"



They score nil

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Quote: TURFEDOUT "I agree its not simple.

But if people dont want a club to be assessed on a stadia that might/might not be ready and as in Wakefields case,they wont be at their current home -- what can they assess their facilities on?'"


The fact that they have not delivered a long term solution yet.

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Quote: Inflatable_Armadillo "Actually you are giving me some new information there, so that news is a little more positive than last time I heard any gossip about it.

Now, this £10m from Peel, I heard the the loan from the council was for the full £20m and the £10m from Peel was conditional and only once the stadium is built? That left Salford with £10m to pay off the council over what I assume to be a lengthy period?

If they are close to an appointing a main contractor for the stadium build then that is a big step, but like I said there is not one currently, but if they sort that then they are then well and truly in pole-position.

Wakefield's money is coming from the developer, Wakefield College, the sale of Belle Vue and some borrowed money, like Salford, but Wakefield MDC has given Wakefield and Cas a portion of land with an asset value of £2m to use as loan security only, so a little less risky for the LA. There is also some money being talked about from maybe the lottery to supplement the community sport facilities, meaning they could build the corners into the ground straight away, but I understand they have enough to finish it without the corners, with any grant monies.'"

The council and Peel holdings have formed a "Joint Venture" company. Theis company is the applicant for the new stadium and the council has loaned this company £10 million to help pay for the construction work and new infrastructure. This joint venture company will then own the stadium and Salford will have a license to use it. The money is already sourced and ring fenced. Salford City Council are determined that this Stadium happens, they have given it the fullest of support and see it as another jewel in the City’s crown, following the Lowry Centre, Lowry Hotel, BBC/Media City etc. Salford City Reds are not paying a penny for any of this, hence we have a bit of money to spend in the recruitment side of things for next season.
It will be built, and all the signs are that it will be ready for the start of the 2012 season.

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