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Quote: Durham Giant "Maybe a bit controversial but i am not convinced about Ainscough. as good and quick as he is, and leading try scorer in SL defensively he is not good enough yet. He was at fault for two Huddersfield tries and did not play against Saints because they threatened to bomb him on every 5th tackle.

Against Australia or NZ he would be targetted from the first minute. Whilst various English teams have suffered from different weaknesses over the years the one consistent one is the inabilty of our wingers to deal with kicks. That would be the key issue for me in picking a future english winger it is likely to mean that we have to train Ainscough to leap like a gazelle, find another winger or play someone out of their normal position.'"


So you wouldn't have Offiah (in his prime) in your team - a player that was hardly noted for his defence and was targeted by the opposition week after week?
By this I'm not comparing Ainscough's attacking skills / speed with Offiah, just that he's a young british winger, currently at the top of the scoring charts doing exactly what he does best......score tries!

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Quote: Saddened! "My appologies, what with you being Fingerpost's finest and Fingerpost being in St Helens and you talking of a young St Helens player who hasn't shown much at senior level I assumed you were a Saints fan who watched the academy on a regular basis.

So, I'll change my question, how does a Widnes fan come to the conclusion that Wheeler is the best stand off since Tony Myler?'"



yes i do come from fingerpost in st helens, but i have always been a widnes fan,

as for wheeler, i watch quite a lot of academy games at widnes and from the youngsters coming through young wheeler is the pick of the crop IMO.

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Quote: MattyB "Durham Giant wroteyet. He was at fault for two Huddersfield tries and did not play against Saints because they threatened to bomb him on every 5th tackle.

Against Australia or NZ he would be targetted from the first minute. Whilst various English teams have suffered from different weaknesses over the years the one consistent one is the inabilty of our wingers to deal with kicks. That would be the key issue for me in picking a future english winger it is likely to mean that we have to train Ainscough to leap like a gazelle, find another winger or play someone out of their normal position'"





Quote: MattyB "So you wouldn't have Offiah (in his prime) in your team - a player that was hardly noted for his defence and was targeted by the opposition week after week?
By this I'm not comparing Ainscough's attacking skills / speed with Offiah, just that he's a young british winger, currently at the top of the scoring charts doing exactly what he does best......score tries!'"


You obviously missed the bit in Bold.

However looking at your arguement i would make two points.

If being fast and scoring points is the main criteria for a winger ( and defence is secondary) could i suggest we go into the games against Aus and NZ with Ainscough on one wing and Penny on the other. That way we will be guaranteed lots of tries and would surely win the competition. NOT

Additionally the game has moved on a lot from the days when Offiah was playing as a FULL TIME PRO in a semi pro sport. defensively he was not the best but he was not playing against the Athletes that the game has now ie Folau or Inglis or Vatuvei. Additionally the game particularly attacking wise was as i remember very different without the pin point kicks to wing men to score. If you want to put Ainscough up against those three players i have mentioned above then you would be as successful an international coach as Tony Smith.

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1. Briscoe (HKR)/Cudjoe
2. Lawrence
3. Atkins
4. Shenton
5. Ainscough/Briscoe (HullFC)
6.Tomkins
7. Myler
8. Graham
9. Moore
10. S Burgess
11. Tomkins
12. Ferguson
13. Westerman

14. Roby
15. Clubb
16. LMS
17. L Burgess

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Quote: Durham Giant " defensively he was not the best but he was not playing against the Athletes that the game has now ie Folau or Inglis or Vatuvei. '"
Just Kevin Iro. Dead easy.

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Quote: Mark "Ainscough isn't ready, as bad defensively as Kevin Penny but seems to escape criticism. '"


He isn't.

His defence is pretty sound but his positioning from kicks needs a little work imo.

The one thing Ainscough has though that Penny doesn't seem to have is balls! He'll throw himself at anything and will work his rocks off for the side. He's also bounced back from every single error he's come up with and gone on to have a class game.

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Quote: Ski "I am stunned Paul Clough doesn't get much more of a mention. Shows how under-rated he is, even amongst Saints' fans.'"


He'd be in my side for the France mid season game.

He has come on hugely in the last few months and deserves a crack.

As for him getting into a first choice side at the end of the year the compatition may be abit too great but he should be around the squad.

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Quote: Dave Lister "Meh. Shenton is miles better than Clubb tbh. Sharp seems to be going backwards (many are citing a lack of confidence); i'd take LMS over Huby and Prescott.'"


I think Clubb is turning into a very good wide running second-row, his size, speed and more importantly power are starting combine nicely to punch holes through defences.

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Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "I think Clubb is turning into a very good wide running second-row, his size, speed and more importantly power are starting combine nicely to punch holes through defences.'"



seconded, can't remember the last great ball playing second row to come through in britain (and before the w***n fans spout on about hock he isn't great)

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Quote: Fingerposts Finest "seconded, can't remember the last great ball playing second row to come through in britain (and before the w***n fans spout on about hock he isn't great)'"

don't worry....like most of our good players over the years, they will buy him and ruin him within 2 years icon_rolleyes.gif
Tony Clubb should play in the French game IMO, but it's not MO that counts.
I still say pick a team of U25's for this game, but it won't happen.

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Quote: Fingerposts Finest "seconded, can't remember the last great ball playing second row to come through in britain (and before the w***n fans spout on about hock he isn't great)'"


Ellis?

Played nearly a full season at Stand Off 4 or so years back and has a handy offload

Ski
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Quote: NickyKiss "He'd be in my side for the France mid season game.

He has come on hugely in the last few months and deserves a crack.

As for him getting into a first choice side at the end of the year the compatition may be abit too great but he should be around the squad.'"


This I agree with. But if he matures in the international game the way he has in the domestic game, he will be an exceptional player.

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Quote: Ski "This I agree with. But if he matures in the international game the way he has in the domestic game, he will be an exceptional player.'"


I like his attitude. He doesn't do anything too flashy but just gets on with the job.

The fact that he's quite versitile will also help his cause.

It's players like Clough, Shenton and Macarthy-scarsbrook that we should be looking at in this mid season game to see if they're up for selection for the big games at the end of the year.

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Quote: NickyKiss "(About Paul Clough)I like his attitude. He doesn't do anything too flashy but just gets on with the job.'"
Had a great game yesterday against the big, 'orrible french pack.

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I dont see the point in picking players now that wont play come the end of the year. Clough, while decent wont play come oct/nov, same with Ainscough although to be honest I think he's a couple of years off yet.
We complain at a lack of int game time yet we're going to waste it on players that don't have a cat in hells chance??

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