Yes, I'm sure selecting 'oggy' holmes and mcmeekan would have been the key to England success. I remember when tony smith 'picked on form' and we had f*cking paul sykes in the team.

It's ridiculous to come on here sometimes and read people rubbishing the entire team just because the odd the player was left out who has been in good form. (which is sometimes a player for their club).

Stevie Ward looked an oustanding prospect last season before his injury didn't have enough games to show his form this season but will almost certainly have a future within the setup, was in the training squad and played the same position as ferres. It doesn't follow strict protocol on picking in form but it made sense.

Stevie Ward has not only been an outstanding prospect throughout all age groups, he has been an outstanding player for the Leeds team, he is a player who, by the age of 22, has been a key player in a side which won a grand final in 2012, a challenge cup in 2014, a treble in 2015.

In 2015, Stevie Ward made 927 tackles, missing 62. in 2016 'Oggy' Holmes made 431 and missed 67. In 2015 Stevie Ward made 66 tackle busts, 2016 Holmes made 11. In 2015 Ward made 1880 metres, 2016 Holmes made 1167. In 2015 Ward made 11 clean breaks, in 2016 Holmes made 3. In 2015 Ward made 27 offloads, In 2016 Holmes made 5.

Stevie Ward is a very good player with outstanding potential. Holmes isnt very good.

If we perpetuate the myth that the only way to get recognition is to sign for the 'big clubs' then there will only ever be the 'big clubs' experiencing success. It's a vicious circle. That's the issue.

The Wigan Leeds propaganda continues on the virtual terrace. Outstanding prospect Stevie Ward I bet the Aussies are babbing themselves.... I remember being told the same by hull fans on here ten years ago about a scrum half called Tommy Lee. OIlly Holmes is still young and vastly more experienced than Ward... he is a work horse and while in no way suggesting he should be near England's first 17 he much deserves a shot over butter bones Ward. Ward has been in big games this year ??? What fev away ??? As Cas have been streets in front of Leeds all season, I would suggest our pack is better and Olly and Michael have been a massively part of that. I suggest bringing Ryan Bailey back into the squad because he has lots of medals and has played in plenty of big games

There's a lot more to this than who is better/has played more. For a start better is all down to opinion, I'm sure people on here can understand Wayne Bennetts opinion is different to there's?

Then take into account that Ward, McMeeken and Holmes all have very different skill sets even though they all play second row. Holmes is a workhorse, McMeeken a hole puncher and Ward more of a ball handler. That comes into play when picking a squad, Holmes IMO would be a replacement in the Liam Farrell mould. This IMO is also the reason Clarke is in over Houghton, because he offers a different dynamic to Hodgson whereas Houghton would offer a simmilar input.

All three have had injury issues this year. In fact all the guys you'd think might have a chance of forcing their way into the World Cup have, including guys like Greenwood, Currie etc.

Bottom line is Ward has a serious international future and with all due respect Holmes doesn't. A good SL player mind.

Ward is also very unlikely to figure in the 17 In the big games barring a few injuries, it's a silly argument.

I'll just be glad when the Four Nations is over and done with.

give over, it's all I've been looking forward to since our confirmation of middle 8s in July

It's unlikely any would play against Australia or NZ anyway. I'd rather have Holmes and McMeekan having a long rest and a good pre-season.
I'm glad Luke Gale is playing as he is likely to be first choice half back and playing the likes of Aus and NZ should improve his game. There would be no benefit to Holmes and McMeekan training for a further six weeks, playing against France and/or Scotland and risking possible injury.
So I'm glad Stevie Ward has been picked, from a purely selfish point of view.