FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > World Cup: Thoughts so far? |
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| Quote: UllFC "There isn't really a 'perfect' format though.
If you make it 'top 2 go through' for all groups you risk a weak team sneaking through at the expense of an average team who were unlucky to have Australia/NZ/England in their group.
If you split the big 3 teams up (nobody predicted Tonga to be so strong til the squad announcement which is too late to change the format) you end up with less interesting group games and the 4th group would have no big team and would be called an easy group.
The only other way is to do a 'best 2nd/3rd place teams go through' type of format, but that gets confusing and again you get complaints that some groups are easier than others.'"
Controversial, but next year I'd go:
Group A (all 3 go through, the higher you finish, the easier your QF)
Australia
England
New Zealand
Group B (2 go through)
(2 of Fiji/PNG/Samoa/Tonga)
(2 of France/Ireland/Italy/Lebanon/Scotland/USA/Wales)
Group C (2 go through)
(2 of Fiji/PNG/Samoa/Tonga)
(2 of France/Ireland/Italy/Lebanon/Scotland/USA/Wales)
Group D (1 goes through)
(3 of France/Ireland/Italy/Lebanon/Scotland/USA/Wales)
QF1 - A1 v D1
QF2 - B1 v C1
QF3 - A2 v B2
QF4 - A3 v C2
SF1 - QF1 v QF2
SF2 - QF3 v QF4
F - SF1 v SF2
This would produce more games between Australia/England/NZ, which is what brings in money/interest. The games ought to be more competitive because I've segregated the top tier nations in their own group and split the second tier. In theory this ought to reduce the number of mismatches, and ensure everyone has at least one group game against a team of similar ability.
Obviously people would moan about no one getting knocked out of Group A, and a team with a losing record going through, but at least it's a top tier team who had the hardest fixtures going through at the expense of a third tier team who had the easiest fixtures. I'd say it's a fair trade-off given the advantages, it's not like Aus/Eng/NZ are going to be knocked out in the group stages anyway.
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| if there is to be 16 teams at the next world cup, australia, new zealand, england and tonga should (looks like its going to be the 4 semi finalists this year) be the top seeded teams, each in a separate group
then like the football world cup the following nations should be seeded
for example
2nd seeds-PNG, Fiji, Samoa, Ireland
3rd seeds-Lebanon, France, Italy, Scotland
4th seeds USA, Wales, Canada, Russia (last 2 just examples)
so you could have for example
group 1
australia, fiji, france, Canada
top 2 Progress, simple and fair imo, no favours for the bigger nations, doesnt happen in other sports, shouldnt happen in ours.
probably get some blow out scores but at least it rewards teams that win
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| Quote: brearley84 "ireland may very well feel hard done by but maybe if the players who turned out for the world cup turned out for the european cup and won it then they would have been seeded like scotland were who won the euro cup and qualified for the four nations.
dont think mcillourm, amor or mcarthy scarsbrook put their hand up for ireland back then.'"
This is the key point.
The organisers weren't to know that Amor, Singleton, Philbin, McIlorum, McDonnell, LMS, Kay, King & Mullaly would put their hands up to play when they put together the format a couple of years ago following the European Cup (which none of the players named above played in).
They finished third in that European Cup, behind France & Wales, and are ranked around 8th.
The top 6 ranked sides are all in Groups A & B (whether those rankings are accurate or not, see my paragraph above).
International RL needs fixtures. Shoehorning our International game onto the end of our regular season for a month, and an odd mid-season friendly, is simply not good enough. Countries like Ireland & Tonga need regular games, and as many regular chances as possible vs the "big 3", in order to retain these players and build their ranking, fan base & their profile/brand.
We still have no idea what's happening in the International game from after the World Cup, to October 2021 when the next one kicks off. It's this reactive, last-minute, after-thought approach to International RL which renders it a joke.
Personally, I'd start by creating a three-week mid-season International break from the NRL & SL to free up the players. The Aussies can play their Origin series, and every other country under the administration of the RLIF & RLEF can play three tests. Perhaps using the Union "Autumn Internationals" model where one hemisphere travels one year, the other hemisphere travels the next.
Use the end of season for Tournaments/Qualifications/Tours.
E.g.
2017 World Cup
2018 Big 3 Tours/Tests & 5 Nations Groups/Qualification
2019 5 Nations (big 3 plus winners of Europe & Pacific)
2020 Big 3 Tours/Tests & World Cup Groups/Qualification
2021 World Cup
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| Quote: DGM "This is the key point.
The organisers weren't to know that Amor, Singleton, Philbin, McIlorum, McDonnell, LMS, Kay, King & Mullaly would put their hands up to play when they put together the format a couple of years ago following the European Cup (which none of the players named above played in).
They finished third in that European Cup, behind France & Wales, and are ranked around 8th.
The top 6 ranked sides are all in Groups A & B (whether those rankings are accurate or not, see my paragraph above).
International RL needs fixtures. Shoehorning our International game onto the end of our regular season for a month, and an odd mid-season friendly, is simply not good enough. Countries like Ireland & Tonga need regular games, and as many regular chances as possible vs the "big 3", in order to retain these players and build their ranking, fan base & their profile/brand.
We still have no idea what's happening in the International game from after the World Cup, to October 2021 when the next one kicks off. It's this reactive, last-minute, after-thought approach to International RL which renders it a joke.
Personally, I'd start by creating a three-week mid-season International break from the NRL & SL to free up the players. The Aussies can play their Origin series, and every other country under the administration of the RLIF & RLEF can play three tests. Perhaps using the Union "Autumn Internationals" model where one hemisphere travels one year, the other hemisphere travels the next.
Use the end of season for Tournaments/Qualifications/Tours.
E.g.
2017 World Cup
2018 Big 3 Tours/Tests & 5 Nations Groups/Qualification
2019 5 Nations (big 3 plus winners of Europe & Pacific)
2020 Big 3 Tours/Tests & World Cup Groups/Qualification
2021 World Cup'"
even more ireland players who didnt put their hand up to play for ireland in the euro cup at the time then ... no good moaning now is it... should have played back then and got the rewards now, they prob moaned about playing too many games though then!
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| It's going to get better from now on. We're at the business end of the tournament now. I for one am very excited by some of the upcoming matches and potential matches.
I'm really hoping for an Australia v NZ semi final and then an Australia v England final, and for both matches to be close. Please no one sided 40-0 type results. Unless it's England winning 40-0, in which case I shall make some allowances.
I need to look into the Premier Sports thing because BBC are only going to show one SF live and that's obviously going to be England. I want to watch the Aus v NZ match live too.
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| Quote: roopy "www.thenational.com.pg/aston-opens-door-png-players/
Article from The National (PNG) saying Sheffield Eagles and Ireland coach Aston made an offer to consider any PNG players who want to try playing in England.'"
A smart move, PNG have some cracking players.
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| Quote: Sir Kevin Sinfield "A smart move, PNG have some cracking players.'"
I suggested as much when the Hunters won the QLND Cup.....work visas are the issue though.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Paris, seriously
Paris is not a crazy idea. It is the national capital, and the centre of media and business. If you want to be noticed in French sport you must have a team in Paris. Now I know that this requires a business plan and a rich backer, and a competent front office, but that could happen if Toulouse is admitted to Super League and is successful. If that happened it would be a huge shot in the arm for French rugby league and over time for the national team. A competitive France is vital for a successful international game..
I think Super League must be diluted a little, with witless Widnes, and perhaps silly Salford, being relegated. The former doesn't have the player talent, and the latter doesn't have the fan base. Salford may not even have enough finances in the future. England can still draw on the same player pool if one or two of these clubs would be relegated. The few talented English players set free by Widnes or Salford will find work in the new expansion clubs.
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| Other than England been distinctly average and Ireland not being able to qualify despite deserving to...it’s been fantastic so far!
Tonga have been bloody great!
Fiji were good in the last World Cup and have been even better in this and could upset New Zealand.
PNG have improved massively.
Tonga v New Zealand was the best international rugby league game I’ve ever seen.
Tonga and PNG fans have made the tournament too
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| Quote: Psychedelic Casual "Tonga fans have made the tournament too'"
alas.......a few of them haven't been and they are making headlines here for all the wrong reasons. I hope the organisers and local council in Sth Auckland can arrange for a fan-zone for the predicted semi-final clash at Mt Smart between Tonga and England......which will be a full house
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| Quote: Psychedelic Casual "
Tonga v New Zealand was the best international rugby league game I’ve ever seen.
'"
That's a big statement. It was a good game for sure and the best of this WC so far, however i thought the first half was no more than decent and it was probably in the way Tonga came back/NZ imploded that elevates the game. I don't know how far back you go, but i think i could go back through history and ping many better international games than that, particularly early 90's and the mal reilly GB era and ashes tests of that time...the kiwis have had some ding dong thrillers with OZ too for a while now, 2006 four nations final golden point thriller being a classic and WC semi of 2013 was an 80 minute belter.
Certainly the best performance for a team outside the big 3 ive seen though no doubt about that.
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| Quote: Biff Tannen "That's a big statement. It was a good game for sure and the best of this WC so far, however i thought the first half was no more than decent and it was probably in the way Tonga came back/NZ imploded that elevates the game. I don't know how far back you go, but i think i could go back through history and ping many better international games than that, particularly early 90's and the mal reilly GB era and ashes tests of that time...the kiwis have had some ding dong thrillers with OZ too for a while now, 2006 four nations final golden point thriller being a classic and WC semi of 2013 was an 80 minute belter.
Certainly the best performance for a team outside the big 3 ive seen though no doubt about that.'"
I agree. The second Test Australia vs Great Britain in 1990 was certainly one of the greatest internationals ever, and better than the NZ vs Tonga match, though the latter was excellent.
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| Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Paris is not a crazy idea. It is the national capital, and the centre of media and business. If you want to be noticed in French sport you must have a team in Paris. Now I know that this requires a business plan and a rich backer, and a competent front office, but that could happen if Toulouse is admitted to Super League and is successful. If that happened it would be a huge shot in the arm for French rugby league and over time for the national team. A competitive France is vital for a successful international game..
I think Super League must be diluted a little, with witless Widnes, and perhaps silly Salford, being relegated. The former doesn't have the player talent, and the latter doesn't have the fan base. Salford may not even have enough finances in the future. England can still draw on the same player pool if one or two of these clubs would be relegated. The few talented English players set free by Widnes or Salford will find work in the new expansion clubs.'"
How lonely it must be sat in your squalid little bedsit cracking one out while staring at posters of Pamela Anderson and Jordan. The even sadder thing is that you're clearly a grown man and not a 14yo boy trolling.
Lets not try and get around the swear filter please.
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| Quote: SaleSlim "
And posts like this just add fuel to his fire. Amazing that people still bite & fall for it.
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| Chatting to a couple of mates today at work ... I work in Sydney... and one (we were talking about the Socceroos) said ' there's supposed to be a World Cup going on at the moment too! But you wouldn't know it!!! Where are the games being played????
Marketing... what marketing???
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