Awful from England. We have the players but they are being coached so poorly. I don't belive dropping Widdop or Williams and playing Luke Gale is going to solve our problems. It's the coach that's the issue. Look at Hardaker. Been absolutely brilliant all season, but was bang average today. Offered nothing in attack. Every time he got the ball he passed it almost instantly. Don't think he drew a man in all game!

McNamara should have gone after the 2013 World Cup.

McGuire lacked quite a few things when he was tried at International level but was exciting running the ball and a terrific support player.

Now he's become a more rounded and complete HB, but dropped off in those exciting qualities above due to age/loss of speed they won't consider picking him.

In each of the last two years McGuire has been the best player on the pitch in a major final. Yet he's even overlooked for the squad, never mind the starting XIII, and Matty Smith gets in the squad.

Williams may end up being a very good player, but he's not one yet. McGuire is, yet is nowhere to be seen.

I'm not sure we were rubbish we are just England, what I mean by that is I've lost count of the number of times England or GB have won the opening test which surprisingly basically guarantees the next two sell out. Only to lose the second and get destroyed in the third. (call me a cynic "maybe I am but I've seen it all before").

I purposely watched the body language of the Kiwi's after last weeks performance and TBH they didn't look to bothered to me.

Worst game of RL I've ever been to. It made a poor game of union look exciting.

No line speed or depth in attack. We may have a great pack but the took the ball standing still.

Even when we tried to move the ball wide our timing was all out and passes were awful.

No dummy runners no decoys no idea.

Worst game of RL I've ever been to. It made a poor game of union look exciting.

No line speed or depth in attack. We may have a great pack but the took the ball standing still.

Even when we tried to move the ball wide our timing was all out and passes were awful.

No dummy runners no decoys no idea.

Some of us said McBanana was a mistake when he was first appointed.

I remembered being attacked for calling him Mcbanana by one of the posters talking about how shambolic England were today.

McBanana is a crap coach and always has been .

Yet it still seems the English RL cannot get their heads around this.

This is a woeful NZ team shorn of half it's first teamers and yet we still cannot win.

Their should be wholesale changes for next week.

Gale and Cudjoe in and probably McGilvray.

I would be unsure about him under the high ball but NZ dont have a good kicker so less of a problem than it might be.

The team needs a bit of a buzz and some fresh players might be needed.
I would drop Hodgson as well.

Agree we should pick the best we have in every position. Maguire should be there with Widdop (one of the best halfbacks in the NRL) Gale as backup & williams around the squad for the experiance. Magilvary is up the top of the try scoring & should be played outside Cudjoe. John Bateman is not a centre he could cover if a centre is taken off during the game. I think he will be a terrific international second row in a couple of seasons but at the moment we have better. I have allways thought it a mistake to pick players out of position. I am a fan of Josh Hodgson but I would start with Roby & bring josh on to spell him but off the bench he can cover loose forward or second row at a push if injuries occour allowing three big forwards on the bench as well.

My picks for worst player were Williams who didn't seem to be able to actually hold onto the ball and Bateman who just didn't seem to have any strength, clattered into tackles and was floored immediately with no progress made.

It's ironic that mcguire used to be selected all the time when he was less of a complete standoff and more of a runner, then in his twlight years when he has honed his skills and become a real chief and creator, he is nowhere near the set up.

I'm not sure it was down to individuals we just had no structure in attack. We could have had Thurston in there and been almost as bad.

We badly missed an attacking link player, but then again there were no runners anyway. Absolutely awful attacking structure.

Maybe the stint in defence took it out of them.

I think you have a fair point about Englands extra effort in defence, on reflection I think someone like gale playing what he see's in front of him might be the best option, Widdop holds the team in position & directs well but he will not have that unexpected play in his bag or a speculative off the cuff play, Williams I am sure has that but he needs time to grow in confidence at this level to be able to fight his corner with the coach. An example today was Roby quiet rightly putting a kick through into space but no other player on the side was quick thinking enough to realise what he had done. Maybe it was fatigue after defending or they are coached to play a ridgid pattern with no room for flair?