Thought that was quite a physical hit out there to be fair.intensity was good throughout.i hope we play samoa as I feel they will provide a better work out for wembley.

We have had much better prep. Than the kiwis who have had a pretty much procession to the semi's.

Being a Hull KR fan I have no axe to grind with Wigan at all but I tend to agree.

Wigan are worthy champions - make no mistake about it. Their success has been based on basic high percentage, high completion rugby league aided by the least off-loads in the comp, superb preparation and a great team and work ethic with high intensity and collective work rate to win games.

However, as individuals, I think we're seeing that Tomkins aside, the rest of the Wigan contingent in Charnley, McIllorum and Farrell are not capable to stand up and make a real impression at international level.

We've seen Charnley storm down the right wing all year and he was my pick ahead of Briscoe prior to the tournament but against Australia when he had to really on himself to make telling contributions, he was found wanting where as Briscoe has proved he can create opportunities for himself and his team mates rather than just finishing off tries like a flat-track bully.

I read that Farrell didn't miss a tackle until round 9 of Super League which is a phenomenal stat and every coach in Super League would want to sign him for his superb defence and insane work rate but at international level he's merely a passenger - even a player like Ferres is proving his individual qualities have value at international level.

McIllorum has been described as "tailor made for test match football" by McNamara; a statement I initially brought me round to why he's been selected in the squad but today showed that whilst he tough and uncompromising, he's simply no where near this standard of rugby league. The difference in England's performance from when he was off the field compared to when he was on was truly alarming. There's Roby, Burrows, Lunt, Hodgson and Houghton just off the top of my head who are better hookers and offer far more than McIllorum and if he plays again in this tournament then McNamara wants his head testing.

The two grains of hope that I cling on to as an England Rugby League fan are:-

1) I don't think Aussie's pack can go toe-to-toe with ours IF we get an even share of the ball and

2) The Kiwi's seem to have poor scrambling defence IF we get behind them often enough.

Of course when it comes to the crunch it will probably be the same old, same old. But at least this time I genuinely feel the team can at least compete at the same level with Aus and NZ so at least as England fans we're starting to be entertained.

Graham was garbage, why is nobody asking for him to be dropped?

Impressive to score 34 points in 20 minutes! Fiji kept England scoreless for 60 minutes of the game in total. Good effort!

?? Really,in what way? I thought he got through his usual amount of graft.not his greatest game but far from garbage.

mcillorum is utter garbage. Thank god we had burrow on the bench as we'd probably have lost if mcillorum had played the full 80

Thought Burrow made the difference today.

Tackled well but offered nothing going forward. If that's how he's going to play his game then we may as well just have another second rower on the pitch.

Same could be said of New Zealand and the Aussies will ease to the final having only had 1 challenge (from England) 5 weeks prior.

......................

Burrow whilst played well, it was because we had so much possession in that second half. We won't enjoy that much against New Zealand or Australia so you have to remember and consider the defensive issues that taking off a hooker who defends down the middle and bringing on someone you have to hide out wide.

Hard to judge Farrell to see if he's ahead of Ablett moving onwards. The game as a whole started to lull down again shortly after he finally got on.

Barring injuries we've probably see the last of Mossop, Tom Burgess and Widdop in this tournament. Still think Briscoe and Charnley is a close call.

I'm not turning this into a club vs club row but I think people are being harsh on the Wigan lads.
O'Loughin has played 4 games since August, he's not 100 percent match fit but he's the perfect loose forward a leader, can take the ball up & can distribute, he will improve with every game and is a key part of England's pack.
McIlroum is a very big defender and a very good distributor. He's not going to do the scooting the burrow does or Rob but we do need something different- he's like a terrier in the middle and gets stuck in.
Farrell did as much tonight as Ablett has done in 2 games.
I don't understand the criticism for Charnley. He's got speed to burn, everyone is forgetting his reactions for his try against the Aussies, he should come back in over Briscoe for me.

Good point but we will get some periods in the game where the momentum is ours and this is when burrow needs to be brought in.i suppose thats down to the quality of the coaches to spot that window of opportunity.

I think the starting 13 for Fiji were well up to this level of play, but their reserves were not up to it.
Fiji were also out of petrol after having a 60/40 possession split against them as well.
As a Fiji fan, I just wish Mrs Sims had been a better breeder, because the team needed a few more like the other 3.
Plenty of improvement in the Fiji side still. With Uate and Waqa back they will be much more dangerous in attack, but the loss of Korbin Sims (to suspension) will hurt because they are already short 3 or 4 quality forwards.

Fiji are still capable of finishing 4th.

Look mate, I have nothing against Wigan and I agree that Tomkins and O'Loughlin deserve their places in the starting 13 at 1 & 13 respectively.

But Charnley and Farrell lack the individual class to make an impression at international level, not club level, international level.

If you truly believe that Charnley is a better option than Briscoe then you need to take a step back from the club you support and think carefully about what each individual player can do because there's no comparison.

Farrell is nothing more than a work horse at international level and as I've said he lacks the individual quality to make an impression on a game at international level.

As for McIllorum, as has been said earlier, had he played the full 80 we'd have lost that game - he's absolute garbage, offers nothing apart for "being tough" and as for McNamara saying "he'll offer some whack in the middle", prior to yesterday, we'll he needs to start waking up and smell the coffee because McIllorum should not be anywhere near an England jersey again because he offers nothing.

all i saw from briscoe was cutting inside everytime and did he break any tackles? the only time he went on the outside is when he shouldn't then he kicked it and gave the ball away. McIlorum had a fine game usual tough tackling and good distribution if the english halves played better we would of scored more no doubt about it, burrow wont be able to hide out wide like he tried to do today before getting knocked out. Farrell well he hardly looked out of place either when he was on offloaded and made meters nothing wrong with his performance.

The difference between the first and second half was decision making and execution from chase, and the tiring fiji team. Mcilorum is not a world class player in attack, but i am sure he had a good hand in tiring out the Fiji team in the irst half. Chase just doesnt seem to understand structure at all. He will do miss out passeswhen the numbers are fine so just slows down play, he double pumps on dummy runs so just slows down play. He was clueless in the first half. It worked once, but just hamstrung our attack for the whole first half. Ryan hall scored down the line in spite of rangi chase not because of his pass. Burrow came on and did well supporting play, but the key was the halves playing to an attacking structure that made space. Rob burrow was the hooker in the pitch when the halves decided to actually play to a structure, and while fiji were knackered. But burrow doesnt offer anything different from roby, and is just less reliable in defence. Mcilorum offers bruising defense and a competent attack with competent halfback play around him.

Oloughlin is good, and significantly better than any alternative. Farrell vs ablett is much of a muchness, as is charnley vs briscoe.

So next match starting team from today, roby on the bench for burrow, but same bench otherwise (farrell vs ablett...?) mcilorum to go off after 20, then roby to do the rest of the match.