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Quote: SmokeyTA "Hull KR didnt lose £3m over the course of their first years in SL because of Quins.'"


Who has ever suggested anything of the sort?

What your doing here is typical Kipperman. Invent a ludicrous argument and then refute it. d040.gif

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Quote: Starbug "The ' structure ' , wouldn't be any different , nobody has suggested it would , it is however 12 grand per club that could be spent on marketing the competition and the clubs locally , if the money was just handed over to the clubs there wouldn't be any ' dramatic ' change no , but then again would the SL clubs turn down another 100 grand if it was offered ?

How is ' expansion a dead cert ' if Toulouse Olympic [ a professional RL club ] continue to play proffessional RL , it would be no different ' expansion wise if Leigh got in SL , unless you mean SL expansion , not RL expansion , is that what you meant , if so make yourself clear , there is a difference'"



obviously SL expansion - fans would even come from Perpignan area to see TO13 in the SL for example - Championship crowds would remain between 1500 - 3000 depending on the success of the team due to the fickleness of us RL fans

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Quote: sanjunien "obviously SL expansion - fans would even come from Perpignan area to see TO13 in the SL for example - Championship crowds would remain between 1500 - 3000 depending on the success of the team due to the fickleness of us RL fans'"


So when you say ' Expansion ' , you mean expansion of SL , you see that is very important , because we have all been fed the brown smelly stuff that it is expanding the sport of RL , not just SL , as that expansion will help all the sport , when in fact it wont , it is all about the SL clubs improving their own prospects for the future , not the whole sport

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Quote: Starbug "The ' structure ' , wouldn't be any different , nobody has suggested it would , it is however 12 grand per club that could be spent on marketing the competition and the clubs locally , if the money was just handed over to the clubs there wouldn't be any ' dramatic ' change no , but then again would the SL clubs turn down another 100 grand if it was offered ?

How is ' expansion a dead cert ' if Toulouse Olympic [ a professional RL club ] continue to play proffessional RL , it would be no different ' expansion wise if Leigh got in SL , unless you mean SL expansion , not RL expansion , is that what you meant , if so make yourself clear , there is a difference'"



'expansion' as the term is used regarding Leigh for example and TO in the Championship is just another word for an increase in crowds,depending on how successful they are as long as they remain in that league
'Expansion' for Leigh and TO if they reach the SL is a different matter - a team like Leigh (as Widnes will find out) will mean an increase in crowds obviously plus any other SL benefits from SKY whereas SL for TO would mean 'expansion' in terms of general interest of the sport in the south-west of france which would mean higher crowds obviously plus the benfits SKY would bring PLUS a major boost to the sport of RL generally.The SW of france isn't like the north of england either culturally or demographically - the majority of the northern english folk have access to SL rugby literally on their doorsteps.In sw france this isn't the case so an SL team at Toulouse would open up a whole new audience to rl in france.
Whether a TO team in the SL is a good or bad thing is a completely different subject.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you say but you have to understand and respect the basic differences between the two countries to appreciate my sentiments.

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Quote: Starbug "So when you say ' Expansion ' , you mean expansion of SL , you see that is very important , because we have all been fed the brown smelly stuff that it is expanding the sport of RL , not just SL , as that expansion will help all the sport , when in fact it wont , it is all about the SL clubs improving their own prospects for the future , not the whole sport'"


This is a very basic point and one which is absent from anything I have seen.

What constitutes expansion? How is success judged or measured? How do the RFL show that RL expansion has in fact taken place?

Is it the number of people playing the game? At what level? Attending matches? Or pins in a map? Watching on Sky?

What are the targets? When are they planned to be achieved?

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Quote: Barnacle Bill "This is a very basic point and one which is absent from anything I have seen.

What constitutes expansion? How is success judged or measured? How do the RFL show that RL expansion has in fact taken place?

Is it the number of people playing the game? At what level? Attending matches? Or pins in a map? Watching on Sky?

What are the targets? When are they planned to be achieved?'"



'Expansion' in the modern game is : BUMS ON SEATS & SKY SUBSCRIPTIONS - it's as easy as that !

intelligent marketing plus good buisiness sense from within the clubs at all levels would be a great plus...

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Quote: sanjunien "'expansion' as the term is used regarding Leigh for example and TO in the Championship is just another word for an increase in crowds,depending on how successful they are as long as they remain in that league
'Expansion' for Leigh and TO if they reach the SL is a different matter - a team like Leigh (as Widnes will find out) will mean an increase in crowds obviously plus any other SL benefits from SKY whereas SL for TO would mean 'expansion' in terms of general interest of the sport in the south-west of france which would mean higher crowds obviously plus the benfits SKY would bring PLUS a major boost to the sport of RL generally.The SW of france isn't like the north of england either culturally or demographically - the majority of the northern english folk have access to SL rugby literally on their doorsteps.In sw france this isn't the case so an SL team at Toulouse would open up a whole new audience to rl in france.
Whether a TO team in the SL is a good or bad thing is a completely different subject.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you say but you have to understand and respect the basic differences between the two countries to appreciate my sentiments.'"



Sorry , you have completely lost me there , not a clue what you are on about

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Quote: Starbug "Sorry , you have completely lost me there , not a clue what you are on about'"


then sadly,i'm flogging a dead horse.............

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Quote: sanjunien "'Expansion' in the modern game is

That's your opinion and many would agree that they are reasonable (although not the only) measures of "expansion".

But if what you say is true, the "bums on seats" measure could absolutley, definately be increased by promoting say Halifax and Widnes at the expense of Quins and Crusaders. The conclusion being the RFL have different ideas of what constitutes "expansion".

I would like to know what they are aiming for, how they will know they've achieved their aims and how they plan to get there.

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Quote: Barnacle Bill "That's your opinion and many would agree that they are reasonable (although not the only) measures of "expansion".

But if what you say is true, the "bums on seats" measure could absolutley, definately be increased by promoting say Halifax and Widnes at the expense of Quins and Crusaders. The conclusion being the RFL have different ideas of what constitutes "expansion".

I would like to know what they are aiming for, how they will know they've achieved their aims and how they plan to get there.'"


Maybe they know but arent telling us , but we'll know when they increase [ expand ] their salaries and expenses icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Barnacle Bill "That's your opinion and many would agree that they are reasonable (although not the only) measures of "expansion".

But if what you say is true, the "bums on seats" measure could absolutley, definately be increased by promoting say Halifax and Widnes at the expense of Quins and Crusaders. The conclusion being the RFL have different ideas of what constitutes "expansion".

I would like to know what they are aiming for, how they will know they've achieved their aims and how they plan to get there.'"



replacing Fax & Widnes for whichever teams in SL won't change much at all - that's not 'expansion',far from it

'expansion',as the RFL sees it is spreading the game to a wider audience generally - as somebody said in an earlier contribution the the game of RL was lost in the 90s when the RFL mised out on the opportunites to really push the game when pro RU came to the UK - since then the've dawdled and struggled on.
The only way I see the game going to a wider audience is by better marketing from the clubs at all levels,more chances to play at school level nationwide and much more coverage on terrestrial tv.There is no magic formula IMO.Sadly we are at the mercy of SKY.

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Quote: sanjunien "replacing Fax & Widnes for whichever teams in SL won't change much at all - that's not 'expansion',far from it

'expansion',as the RFL sees it is spreading the game to a wider audience generally - as somebody said in an earlier contribution the the game of RL was lost in the 90s when the RFL mised out on the opportunites to really push the game when pro RU came to the UK - since then the've dawdled and struggled on.
The only way I see the game going to a wider audience is by better marketing from the clubs at all levels,more chances to play at school level nationwide and much more coverage on terrestrial tv.There is no magic formula IMO.Sadly we are at the mercy of SKY.'"


Then that's not "bums on seats" at all. Because replacing Quins and Crusaders with Widnes and Halifax would absolutely definately do that.

Where do you get this from?..

'expansion',as the RFL sees it is spreading the game to a wider audience generally.

That might be the case but it is so wooly as to be meaningless. We all want RL spread to as wide an audience as possible, the questions for the RFL are:

What they are aiming for?

How they will know they've achieved their aims?

How (and when) they plan to get there?

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Quote: Barnacle Bill "Then that's not "bums on seats" at all. Because replacing Quins and Crusaders with Widnes and Halifax would absolutely definately do that.

Where do you get this from?..

'expansion',as the RFL sees it is spreading the game to a wider audience generally.

That might be the case but it is so wooly as to be meaningless. We all want RL spread to as wide an audience as possible, the questions for the RFL arequote]

The RFL dont do ' specifics ' , everything is ' subjective ' , that way they can claim a success of an abject failure , as they have done with the Crusaders

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Quote: Barnacle Bill "Then that's not "bums on seats" at all. Because replacing Quins and Crusaders with Widnes and Halifax would absolutely definately do that.

Where do you get this from?..

'expansion',as the RFL sees it is spreading the game to a wider audience generally.

That might be the case but it is so wooly as to be meaningless. We all want RL spread to as wide an audience as possible, the questions for the RFL are
What they are aiming for?

How they will know they've achieved their aims?

How (and when) they plan to get there?'"



how do/can WE know the answers to your questions,ASK THEM ! we can speculate till the cows come home,all we can do is to support our teams as loyally as possible whatever league they may be playing in.What else can WE do ?

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Quote: sanjunien "]

how do/can WE know the answers to your questions,ASK THEM ! we can speculate till the cows come home,all we can do is to support our teams as loyally as possible whatever league they may be playing in.What else can WE do ?'"


Unfortunatly the RFL are now very good at saying something without it actually meaning anything , the SL application is a case in point , they say there are criteria which clubs will be judged on , then after their main sponsorship partner examines several clubs on that criteria , they say that isn't the criteria they will judge on , then they say it is ' subjective ' which is another way of saying , " we'll put in whoever we want "

So what is the point asking them anything , they are nothing more than a bunch of glorified double glazing/second hand car salesmen , ie outright liers , they have told that many now they dont even know the truth anymore

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