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FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Are we that far behind Premiership Rugby Union? |
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| Quote: Sir Kevin Sinfield "Why would you not count games held at Twickenham?'"
Because it makes the poster in question feel uneasy?
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| Well said Call Me God.
To put it further into context PRL (Union's top club league in England) has been offered £275m for 51% of the league by CVC (former owners of F1). Regardless of whether you think CVC did a good job with F1 or whether it is a fair price (some Union club owners are desperate for cash, others think it is a gross undervaluation!) I don't see anyone rushing to SL with a similar offer.
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| Quote: Call Me God "1. During the 2017/2018 AVIVA Premiership, London Irish played 11 "home games, none of which got below 4,000. Their Lowest gate was 4,457, which puts your "Tumpesque" and therefore false claim in the correct light.
5,502 - 6,188 - 7,538 - 7,775 - 10,019 - 4,457 - 5,250 - 15,274 - 7,848 and 7,628 were the declared crowds at Reading in their relegation season, delivering a true seasons average of 7,748. To be clear, that puts them ahead of Saldord, Wakefield, Huddersfield and Widnes in terms of regular season attendances, whilst putting them 150 behind the 2017 SL Grand Finalists, Castleford and only 270 or so behind the hoards of HKR!
Let me get this straight
Not sure how anyone can support what wasps did. Okay it's working out for the club but they kicked there existing fans in the teeth with that move. It's similar to what Wimbledon did when moving to Milton Keynes. Not giving a damn about the existing fan base.
I don't wanna see any rugby league side move 80 miles +. That's not right at all
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| Quote: kobashi "Not sure how anyone can support what wasps did. Okay it's working out for the club but they kicked there existing fans in the teeth with that move. It's similar to what Wimbledon did when moving to Milton Keynes. Not giving a damn about the existing fan base.
I don't wanna see any rugby league side move 80 miles +. That's not right at all'"
The problem is that the existing fanbase was not enough on its own to sustain the club. It was simply a case of "do something or die". That is very much the position that RL finds itself in in many respects. We have supporters demanding that the door to Super League is left open and that clubs chase success, but the financial performance of many of our clubs show that those support bases cannot sustain that. Worse still, they're actively opposing attempts that the sport makes to try and make itself sustainable because it harms their team's chances of delivering the success that isn't sustainable.
Wasps had to do something in order to remain a competitive, viable club, and moving was one of I'm sure many options that they considered. When you consider the cost/difficulty of building a new stadium in the South East commuter belt, the local competition (competing for the same local audiences as Harlequins, Saracens and London Irish), I can understand why they saw the opportunity of an under-utilised and available stadium close to the second-biggest city in the UK.
Yeah, I get that for some local supporters, that sucks, but as heartless as it might sound the club has to keep itself relevant and viable. Wasps has been a somewhat nomadic club for most of its modern history - playing at Loftus Road and Adams Park, and taking bigger games to MK and Coventry. It comes down to what the sport and the clubs want to be - progressive, foreward-thinking and successful, or looking back at how good things used to be. History is what people cling to when they can't look forward to the future.
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| Quote: kobashi "Not sure how anyone can support what wasps did. Okay it's working out for the club but they kicked there existing fans in the teeth with that move. It's similar to what Wimbledon did when moving to Milton Keynes. Not giving a damn about the existing fan base.
I don't wanna see any rugby league side move 80 miles +. That's not right at all'"
WASPS wouldn't exist if they hadn't moved...... But you'd prefer your club died than evolve?
Ha! You're the exception. You don't live in a council estate in Hull or Doncaster.
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| The Wasps situation wasn't really relevant as sign of how RU has gone anyway - as others said they always struggled to build a fan base as they were forever moving around and lack of their own stadium was killing them. Coupled with the mess that Coventry FC and the stadium owners (council?) got into, Wasps spotted an opportunity and took it and fair play to them. It has really paid off for them.
The double header international a couple of years back at the Coventry stadium wasn't full by any means but at least it was people trying to do something different and innovative.
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| 8 months in......
are we competing yet?
rlhttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/07/super-league-clubs-transformed-adam-pearson-hullrl
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| Quote: red_death "The Wasps situation wasn't really relevant as sign of how RU has gone anyway - as others said they always struggled to build a fan base as they were forever moving around and lack of their own stadium was killing them. Coupled with the mess that Coventry FC and the stadium owners (council?) got into, Wasps spotted an opportunity and took it and fair play to them. It has really paid off for them.
The double header international a couple of years back at the Coventry stadium wasn't full by any means but at least it was people trying to do something different and innovative.'"
I agree re the international at Coventry, however as usual in RL we didn’t follow it up with any kind concerted effort or strategy. So if we want to expand/engage people in Coventry we need more than a one-off international. We need to regularly take games there be it internationals, SL games, Cup games etc.
We often have good ideas in RL but never see them through properly.
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| Quote: Him "We often have good ideas in RL but never see them through properly.'"
Indeed......the only thing we've stuck with is Magic, because it pays some of the top heavy wages at the RFL. Every SL side should be made take 1 game OTR each year......same venue each year, for a minimum of 5 years.
If you made Leeds take a game to Leicester each year for 5 years, I have no doubt they'd build gates year on year.......same for Wigan, Wire, Saints and FC.....but the rest????? You'd have Carter and the rest of the "smaller" clubs whining about lost revenue rather than seeing an opportunity...
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| Quote: Call Me God "Indeed......the only thing we've stuck with is Magic, because it pays some of the top heavy wages at the RFL. Every SL side should be made take 1 game OTR each year......same venue each year, for a minimum of 5 years.
If you made Leeds take a game to Leicester each year for 5 years, I have no doubt they'd build gates year on year.......same for Wigan, Wire, Saints and FC.....but the rest????? You'd have Carter and the rest of the "smaller" clubs whining about lost revenue rather than seeing an opportunity...'"
Yep. Although even with the Magic Weekend we don’t maximise its potential. We’re at Newcastle United’s home ground, why aren’t we tying in with them? Offer their season ticket holders discounted tickets. Get a famous Newcastle United player to attend and get it all over the tv coverage. Tie in with Newcastle RL and get them at the games. Have them play a curtain raiser, have the club marketed heavily at the game. Have anyone with a magic ticket be able to get in free to the next Newcastle home game etc and then target any magic ticket buyers in the Newcastle region with marketing for Newcastle RL. And we should take an international there to back up the presence.
Instead we have a game in Coventry a few years ago, the odd game in London, the odd game in Liverpool with no concerted plan.
Like you say, take a game somewhere every year for 5 years and market it properly and it’ll grow. But we never commit to anything.
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| Quote: Him "Yep. Although even with the Magic Weekend we don’t maximise its potential. We’re at Newcastle United’s home ground, why aren’t we tying in with them? Offer their season ticket holders discounted tickets. Get a famous Newcastle United player to attend and get it all over the tv coverage. Tie in with Newcastle RL and get them at the games. Have them play a curtain raiser, have the club marketed heavily at the game. Have anyone with a magic ticket be able to get in free to the next Newcastle home game etc and then target any magic ticket buyers in the Newcastle region with marketing for Newcastle RL. And we should take an international there to back up the presence.
Instead we have a game in Coventry a few years ago, the odd game in London, the odd game in Liverpool with no concerted plan.
Like you say, take a game somewhere every year for 5 years and market it properly and it’ll grow. But we never commit to anything.'"
Exactly, I remember seeing a news broadcast about the Magic Weekend when it was in Edinburgh and none of the people interviewed in the street knew the event was even on let alone that there was virtually no advertising around the town.
The best thing to do with events like this is, until the sales start to remove the need, to paper the crowd. I mean how many times has the Magic Weekend actually sold out? Surely you could look at giving away a few thousand tickets especially if you're given those tickets out in schools and offering rugby league sporting equipment and support to those schools on the understanding that they include RL as part of their sporting curriculum. Be like the tobacco industry - hook'em young
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| Gallagher Premiership 2018.19
Week 1: 12,764 average
Week 2: 12,529 average
No event games, each team has played 1 home game at their regular home stadium....smallest gate at Sale, 7,145 largest at newly promoted Bristol 26,079. Currently averaging 6 tries per game and only 4 penalties......interestingly, last seasons Champions and early pace setters, Exeter have not attempted one Penalty in 2 games so far!
So, they've got bigger gates for regular non event games than they had a decade ago, have increased the number of tries scored from 4 a game in the 2010/11 season and have a natural geographical spread from Newcastle to Exeter, a 6 to 7 hour trip. Their games are shown on BT sport as well as some on FTA on C5, they have one of the largest names in insurance as their naming sponsor.
In 4 weeks time they will break for the start of their 3 tier European club competitions, as well as for the Autumn international series that will see not only the usual ANZAC and South African teams in Europe, but also touring sides from Uruguay, Japan, Tonga, Fiji, Georgia, Argentina, Namibia, Samoa, USA and Kenya playing multiple games, Including a Double header in Chicago of Ireland v Italy and USA v the Maori Al Blacks.....many of these games will be on FTA TV as well as on SKY.
Meanwhile, later this week, the Superleague chairman minus Heatherington will attempt to force their will on the rest of the game by bribing the Championship clubs with more crumbs from their table in the forlorn hope that it will enable us to compete with Union (Adam Pearson's words, not mine). Widnes are in freefall, Leigh are in turmoil and Featherstone are suffering as a result of duel registration not delivering them a top 4 spot, so including the current 12 SL sides, we have maybe 16 full time sides in the UK (and France)...so to answer the original question, yes, were that far behind....we are light years behind them in almost ever facet of the game both on and off the park
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