I hear what you're saying, but everytime we almost beat NZ and Australia count for nothing.

My observation is we matched the kiwis in the forwards but the main difference was Johnson again. The weaknesses in the England team are in the centre's and fullback. Lomax, Sarginson and Watkins are decent SL players but not up to NRL/international standard. On a positive note I think England are benefitting from a few of our pack getting invaluable NRL experience.

Think some people need to look up the definition of scapegoat. I don't think a single person has blamed Watkins solely for the defeat or poor performances, just that he is utter crap in an England shirt - same goes for a few others.

But I guess we need stop in case we hurt Waktins' little feelings

Having watched the game back on TV, individual errors cost us massively.
1. Sarginson's woeful defensive positioning for NZ's first try. I have no idea where he thought he was supposed to be or what he was supposed to be doing.
2. Lomax's missed tackle. The NZ player didn't even step, change direction or change speed. A player at international level should be making that tackle every time.
3. Widdop's interception pass. Just awful. Johnson would have been in his eye-line as he released the ball so he should have realised the pass wasn't on.
So three NZ tries as a result of mistakes that shouldn't be happening at this level.
Added to Widdop's poor decision on the last tackle when we were 1 point behind, Sarginson's inability to pass to Ryan Hall when he has a clear run to the try line and the kick-out in the full, it's clear we have some players who can't get through an international game without doing things that cost us points.
I'm not one for chopping and changing half backs, but I would be looking at a Williams/Gale combination against Scotland. However, playing Scotland is very different to playing Australia or NZ. I sense Bennett will stick with Widdop and Gale all the way through.
Without doubt, Percival has to come in for Sarginson. He looked completely out of his depth.
I'm torn on Lomax and Ratchford. Other than the missed tackle I thought Lomax made good metres for his kick returns.
Whatever happens, we are not good enough to beat Australia. We couldn't beat a NZ side with one or two world class players (Johnson, Taumololo) so we stand no chance against a team with Boyd, Thurston, Cronk, Smith, Inglis, Frizzell, Thiday etc.

We tried our best but the reality is all of the kiwi players perform at a higher level in the NRL. Johnson is different class to anything we've got and I think they'll be privately disappointed they didn't beat us by more points. Despite the defeat and costly errors we made I still think we performed nearer to our full potential than they did.

The result isn't what we hoped for but with several of our boys playing in an inferior competition it's hardly a surprising outcome. I think this is why someone as knowledgeable as Bennett played down England chances before the competition. The simple fact is we can match their effort and enthusiasm but collectively we're not good enough.

Thought the impact of the Burgess brothers of the bench was very limited. Cooper added a spark.

And should have done again.

Agree on Cooper. I don't think any of the Burgess brothers were at the level they showed in the last World Cup.

This needs to be said.

Blake Austin and/or Trent Hodkinson could have made a significant difference to the result yesterday.

As for England's issues in the centres, I appreciate that either of the Morris twins will be considered a step too far for many.

Widdop woeful. Sarginson shouldn't be anywhere near the first 17. Lomax was disappointing. All three Burgesses way short of the standards they should be setting. That's no shock though - they were atrocious with Souths this year.

England not good enough on the day.

Just my two pence - Percival is a really fine, polished young centre - he simply has to start against Scotland and Aus for me. Widdop is being scapegoated again but had a better game than the disappointingly anonymous Gale. Lomax had a fair game but the missed tackle leaves him at risk. I'm okay with the pack though I prefer Farrell to Bateman as a back rower. Wingers are fine also.

The only world class half on the field made the difference.

There were times we bent the Kiwi line & you just know Thurston, Cronk, Moylan etc would have swarmed all over the next couple of plays & turned the screw. Widdop & Gale could not.

Our centres didn't have much impact, but neither did Kenny-Dowall or Kata.

Looks like Johnson's drop goal was wide according to new footage.

Too much hysterical reaction to England's performance on here. There was a 1 point winning margin ffs. NZ scored an intercept too. It was very close.

No need for wholesale changes. Perhaps only Percival for Sarginson or Williams for Gale if fit. A bit of fine tuning and England can still win this.

There's more chance of Nigel Farage being elected president of the European Union.