FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Alex McKinnon |
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| The kid is a scapegoat. He'll have to carry this thought for the rest of his life. To be involved in it is bad enough, to then be punished for it, strengthens the guilt he'd feel.
I remember on a coaching course years ago, someone suggesting that if you can see your feet on the floor when you tackle, you'll increase the chance of getting a neck injury!!!
But of course, on this flip side of being tackled, poor McKinnon's natural instinct is to see where he was going and where to place arm arm out to protect him, thereby causing his head to be in a position that became dangerous for him.
I wish all involved well.
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| Some bizarre statements on here: he was imitating Inglis, McLean is a scapegoat, the ref should have stopped the tackle, it's just as much the NRL's fault...
As for the tackle, doesn't matter if it was marginal or not. He was tipped over and his neck has been broken. Simple as that. He tucked his head because he was about to be driven head-first into the turf. There was nothing he could do but try and move his head out the way - an instinctive survival reaction - which of course led to his neck bearing the weight of the impact with the ground.
As for McLean, as I've said there's no way he would have intended such an injury, but he was lifting to send a message of domination to his opponent. The ban is about right for me. It was an illegal tackle but the terrible outcome was accidental. However, it was still an accident brought on by their actions.
As for all these hundreds of similar unpunished tackles we apparently see go unpunished in the NRL (ie, the attacker being lifted past the horizontal), I'd love to see a few of them, because whenever I see someone tipped over head-first, there is generally a penalty or worse. It's an easy bandwagon to jump on, but in reality that just isn't the truth.
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| Quote: Superted "It is marginal, and you do see plenty of them, but it's still an illegal tackle - there has just been no consistency in dealing with these.
What the stand alone photo doesn't show you is that McLean comes in as a third man to a stationary tackle, where the 2 other defenders have stopped McKinnon moving, and wrapped up his upper body. He then grabs the inside of 1 leg and lifts his hips above his head - it is only marginal, a split second decision and I'm sure unintentional - he's just trying to effect the tackle and slow down a play the ball by putting McKinnon down - however, as soon as he makes the decision to 'lift', he automatically takes responsibility for ensuring a safe landing and stopping going over horizontal- this is something he could not guarantee or control in this instance. Instead of the lift, he could have used a technique to drag the player to the ground, but that takes longer and would likely have been penalised, hence the lift technique is coached as it's quicker, and has more impact.
Other than trying to slow down the ruck, there is no need for a 3rd man in a tackle to 'lift'. Usually the 2 man tackle is effective anyway, the third man is just trying to control the speed of the ruck - lifting is a dangerous way of doing this, as are cannon balls, 'stingers' into the ribs etc. They're grub tactics and as we've seen, once one team do it, it spreads like wild fire, as it's common across all of RL now - the authorities can easily clamp down on it by having stricter rules on exactly what a 3rd man in the tackle can/can't do, and hand out lengthy bans to those the break these rules, regardless of injury.'"
Thanks for that. honestly a good education. In which case it seems fair enough. He put himself in the pivot position rather than being their first.
I know some people would just say watch it, but seems a bit goulish to me.
Maybe lifting as a 3rd man in could be an immediate yellow card offense to stress the danger. Nothing wrong with a 3rd man in to stop the legs driving forwards.
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| Quote: bewareshadows "Thanks for that. honestly a good education. In which case it seems fair enough. He put himself in the pivot position rather than being their first.
I know some people would just say watch it, but seems a bit goulish to me.
Maybe lifting as a 3rd man in could be an immediate yellow card offense to stress the danger. Nothing wrong with a 3rd man in to stop the legs driving forwards.'" I've got some other fairy tales you might like if you bought that one.
He was lifted above the horizontal by a guy with a hand between his legs.
Three big forwards drove him head first into the ground with enough force to snap his neck.
That's what happened.
All the fantasy about it being caused by the way he was holding his mouth, or it actually being a suicide attempt, or any other drivel you hear about how every second tackle in the NRL involves players being driven head first into the turf, is probably not worth listening to.
It probably was 1000/1 that his head was caught in exactly the position to break his neck, but that is why these tackles are illegal - because 1 time in a 1000 you will snap someone's neck.
The Melbourne players and admin have acted with all the empathy of psychopaths in all of this. Cam Smith started blame shifting while the guy was 10 feet away from him screaming that he couldn't move or breath, and the 'defence' that McKinnon contributed to the injury is beyond pathetic.
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| Quote: roopy "I've got some other fairy tales you might like if you bought that one.
He was lifted above the horizontal by a guy with a hand between his legs.
Three big forwards drove him head first into the ground with enough force to snap his neck.
That's what happened.
All the fantasy about it being caused by the way he was holding his mouth, or it actually being a suicide attempt, or any other drivel you hear about how every second tackle in the NRL involves players being driven head first into the turf, is probably not worth listening to.
It probably was 1000/1 that his head was caught in exactly the position to break his neck, but that is why these tackles are illegal - because 1 time in a 1000 you will snap someone's neck.
The Melbourne players and admin have acted with all the empathy of psychopaths in all of this. Cam Smith started blame shifting while the guy was 10 feet away from him screaming that he couldn't move or breath, and the 'defence' that McKinnon contributed to the injury is beyond pathetic.'"
That's the best analysis of the situation I've seen thus far.
The need to super-scrutinise the movements of each player involved and the public blame-shifting that is being conducted through the media is distasteful and unpleasant; a young player has been permanently disabled as a result of an illegal tackle - that's about the size of it.
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| Quote: roopy "I've got some other fairy tales you might like if you bought that one.
He was lifted above the horizontal by a guy with a hand between his legs.
Three big forwards drove him head first into the ground with enough force to snap his neck.
That's what happened.
'"
No it isn't. He wasn't driven head first into the ground. That is a fantasy and a fairytale. The only reason mckinnon's head came into contact with the turf was because he bent it at a wierd angle. If he'd kept his head in it's original position he'd have been put on his back, got up and played the ball. That's the point. It's not Mckinnons fault, f*ck no, but it wasn't down to a devil tackle from melbourne either. It was an accident.
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| Quote: FlexWheeler "No it isn't. He wasn't driven head first into the ground. That is a fantasy and a fairytale. The only reason mckinnon's head came into contact with the turf was because he bent it at a wierd angle. If he'd kept his head in it's original position he'd have been put on his back, got up and played the ball. That's the point. It's not Mckinnons fault, f*ck no, but it wasn't down to a devil tackle from melbourne either. It was an accident.'"
It was an illegal tackle. It took the judiciary 10 minutes to decide that.
Anyone with an ounce of common decency would immediately accept responsibility for their actions and show remorse and contrition.
All we have seen from Melbourne is blame shifting.
If you look at the interview with Bennett, the Knights were trying to make no comment on all of this and concentrate on the more important task of looking after his wellbeing, but as Bennett said, "We owed it to Alex" to not have the blame for this put onto the guy who is in no position to reply and is the clear victim.
Melbourne's response has been the ugly, ugly face of self interest and refusing to take responsibility for their actions.
This whole thing should be behind us now, but not because it was glossed over and minimised by people like you, but because adult and ethical people should have owned their guilt and atoned by now.
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| Whether the tacklers intended it, he was heading to the floor with his legs higher than his head.
He shouldn't have to make a decision of where to put his head to avoid injury.
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| Quote: roopy "It was an illegal tackle. It took the judiciary 10 minutes to decide that.
Anyone with an ounce of common decency would immediately accept responsibility for their actions and show remorse and contrition.
All we have seen from Melbourne is blame shifting.
If you look at the interview with Bennett, the Knights were trying to make no comment on all of this and concentrate on the more important task of looking after his wellbeing, but as Bennett said, "We owed it to Alex" to not have the blame for this put onto the guy who is in no position to reply and is the clear victim.
Melbourne's response has been the ugly, ugly face of self interest and refusing to take responsibility for their actions.
This whole thing should be behind us now, but not because it was glossed over and minimised by people like you, but because adult and ethical people should have owned their guilt and atoned by now.'"
Rubbish, yes players should be penalised for taking attackers over the horizontal, and actually yellow carded if the attacking player is facing downwards, but C Smith was trying to protect a v.young person, who's career was under threat, and his life is some regards. As has bn said, the NRL has to take a lot of responsibility for the situation that A McKinnon is in, they should have bn more harsh on over the horizontal tackles.
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| Quote: OzWelsh "Rubbish, yes players should be penalised for taking attackers over the horizontal, and actually yellow carded if the attacking player is facing downwards, but C Smith was trying to protect a v.young person, who's career was under threat, and his life is some regards. As has bn said, the NRL has to take a lot of responsibility for the situation that A McKinnon is in, they should have bn more harsh on over the horizontal tackles.'" Well done.
You have tremendous compassion for the guy who has no injuries and no lasting effects from this incident, and callous disregard for the guy who may be crippled for life.
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| No, I'm thinking of a young guy who could be suffering psychologically due to the accident, he shouldn't and I hope he doesn't.
Regarding A McKinnon, I'm sure he'll walk again, Gwyn Jones can, and it looked a similar injury.
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| Quote: Cronus "Some bizarre statements on here
Mate......put your hands on your hips, slide them around so they touch each other at the small of your back, then push them down about 12 inches......that's your you can feel. Like opinions, we've all got one.
Welcome to the wacky world of Internet Forums.
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| Quote: OzWelsh "No, I'm thinking of a young guy who could be suffering psychologically due to the accident, he shouldn't and I hope he doesn't.
Regarding A McKinnon, I'm sure he'll walk again, Gwyn Jones can, and it looked a similar injury.'"
Sorry but why shouldn't Mclean have it on his conscience? He chose to use a technique banned for being dangerous.
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| Quote: OzWelsh "No, I'm thinking of a young guy who could be suffering psychologically due to the accident, he shouldn't and I hope he doesn't.
Regarding A McKinnon, I'm sure he'll walk again, Gwyn Jones can, and it looked a similar injury.'"
I would rather abit of psychological damage and a bit of counseling to make me better than two years therapy learning how to walk and wipe my own .
What i would love to klnow is how the media in OZ are reporting it .
How parents looking at signing their kids up for sport are viewing it
It was an illegal tackle and it was punished.
Whether it was overpunished ifrom the point of the individual player is somewhat irrelevant.
Sometimes the credibility of the sport is more important.
I can just imagine how it would have gone down in the press if it had been a case of
" Cripple a player have three weeks off"
Although some s on here would have been happier with
" Cripple a player and have 10 minutes rest"
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| The attitude of some not only in oz but on here is absolutely repugnant & utterly disgusting.
Whining that the tackler is young and he will have the guilt on his conscience, so he should! It's a bit like saying a car crash victim is to blame for trying to avoid a smash from the guilty party and being crippled, those of you victim blaming and feeling sorry for McLean should hang your heads in shame, as for Melbourne, vile doesn't even cover it
A tackle that has been banned for years for the very reason of avoiding injuries such as this was acted out by 3 'tacklers', not only are the players involved guilty (of course that whom lifted between the legs is the main culprit) but the referee is complicit in allowing the tackle to carry on, from the second the arm was bewteen the legs the referre should have whistled or shouted them to put the player down.
As for the reports in the Oz press of it being a terrible 'accident', no it fecking well wasn't an 'accident', an accident by definition implies an unavoidable scenario, this was totally and utterly avoidable by both the person whom made the tackle into what it was and the officials by not stopping it at the first opportunity when you see the arm through the leg..accident my
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