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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
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[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| @ Dunbar and Maximus Decimus.
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International Chairman | 18803 | |
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699_1268771516.gif :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_699.gif |
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| Quote: gutterfax "Yeah...right
He scored them all when we were playing well. Soon as the chips went down so did he. Simple as that. I watched him all that time and he was poor. No coincidence soon as we got Michael Dobson in instead we started winning games in 2006.
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International Chairman | 48326 | |
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1357.jpg [b:34xc0vwf]Doubt everything, even this[/b:34xc0vwf]:1357.jpg |
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| Quote: Bilko " No coincidence soon as we got Michael Dobson in instead we started winning games in 2006.'"
Just a pity you couldn't sign him within the salary cap.
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| Quote: Maximus Decimus "
...Full-time professionalism has changed the game. The way the game is played has completely changed and resulted in this impression that it is less skilful. It is played at a completely different pace now and requires different skills. The Great Britain of today would totally dominate the Great Britain of (20) years ago and that's not just down to full-time professionalism. They wouldn't be able to cope with the speed or fitness levels and would be ineffective against must better organised defences...
'"
Comparing the 2009 GB team with, say, the 1970 GB team, can never be anything more than an entertaining argument, but out of fairness, imagine
Dutton
Smith, Hynes, Myler, Atkinson
Shoebottom, Hepworth
Hartley, Fisher, Watson
Thompson, Laughton
Reilly
with the same full time training, conditioning and backup that the 2009 team have. I was brought up around the likes of these players: from a very early age they played many hours a week, and sometimes many hours a day, of touch and pass rugby, where the focus was to work a gap in the defence with footwork, passing, timing and deception skills. They were hard lads from a hard past, playing rugby at a time when almost every lad in their town played, and competition for advancement was enormous. They had to be good to stand out. The best of them were filtered through challenging junior and open age amateur leagues to reach club level. They could all pass accurately, catch anything within reach, and tackle their opposite number by themselves, if needed - if they couldn't, they simply did not get very far. The 1970 GB team would not have been as big as the 2009 team, but would, I suggest, match or surpass them in most other areas.
Whether the spectacle on show was inferior or not, is a different issue, mostly a matter of personal taste.
(By the way, I have no idea of the 13 from 2009 who would have to face the GB team that lost to Australia in the 1970 World Cup final: anyone feel like suggesting a line up?)
Apologies for drifting away from the main point of the thread.
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Club Owner | 1557 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2003 | 21 years | |
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6396_1303160216.jpg [url=http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=widnesvikingsnetkk1.jpg:xt1xzi0r][img:xt1xzi0r]http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7566/widnesvikingsnetkk1.th.jpg[/img:xt1xzi0r][/url:xt1xzi0r]
[size=100:xt1xzi0r][b:xt1xzi0r][url=http://"http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.com/":xt1xzi0r]A Widnesian in Ireland blog[/url:xt1xzi0r][/size:xt1xzi0r][/b:xt1xzi0r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6396.jpg |
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| Quote: Unsliced Bread "Comparing the 2009 GB team with, say, the 1970 GB team, can never be anything more than an entertaining argument, but out of fairness, imagine
Dutton
Smith, Hynes, Myler, Atkinson
Shoebottom, Hepworth
Hartley, Fisher, Watson
Thompson, Laughton
Reilly
with the same full time training, conditioning and backup that the 2009 team have. I was brought up around the likes of these players
I think a lot of that is simply nostalgia. You talk of challenging amateur leagues were everybody played the game, but the reality is very different. BARLA was formed in 1973 because there were only 150 clubs left and only 39 youth teams.
I'm sure there's a report on the 1982 invincibles where people are astounded that the Australians could run and pass at the same time.
It's all glorifying, I know because I used to do it. I recently watched the 1988 3rd Ashes test where we won for the first time in ages and without my rose tinted spectacles it wasn't really that impressive. The standard of passing was certainly no higher than you would see now. I did the same with the 1984 Challenge Cup final and saw the same thing.
The main difference is that the players tried more tricks and run-arounds but the defences were a lot more shoddy. Players were coming out of the line all of the time creating opportunities to break the line. The emphasis of the game is very different now and it has probably resulted in a slightly less entertaining game. It's the same for most sports though that have seen the advent of full-time professionalism.
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International Chairman | 18803 | |
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699_1268771516.gif :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_699.gif |
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| Quote: tb "Just a pity you couldn't sign him within the salary cap.'"
It wasn't that signing that took us over the salary cap.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 5397 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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8903.gif [quote="dave m":36nw6ut6]Briscoe couldn't get into Wigans Team because of Radlinski even though Radlinski was playing crap at the time still better than old bent nose.[/quote:36nw6ut6]
[quote="redtillimdead":36nw6ut6]Oh and as for Briscoe,if he was that fab,why did Wigan see fit to let him leave?[/quote:36nw6ut6]:8903.gif |
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| Quote: Maximus Decimus "I recently watched the 1988 3rd Ashes test where we won for the first time in ages and without my rose tinted spectacles it wasn't really that impressive.'"
I did the same thing (ESPN Classic?) and, to take it further, the standard was terrible. Both offensively and defensively. Neither team playing that day would even hold down a place in SL, let alone compete internationally.
Wally Lewis was the only player who really looked like he would have done a decent job were he playing now. Having said that, the wingers, particularly Offiah and Gill, would probably be just about as good as what we've got now. The rest were well below in pretty much every area you could name. The skillsets were terrible, with almost every pass thrown from standing and most being either inaccurate or slow. Ball retention was also pretty poor and the defences were a shambles. Add in the lack of fitness and general lack of athleticism, and it didn't make for a very high standard game (by modern standards, at least).
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 1557 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2003 | 21 years | |
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6396_1303160216.jpg [url=http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=widnesvikingsnetkk1.jpg:xt1xzi0r][img:xt1xzi0r]http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7566/widnesvikingsnetkk1.th.jpg[/img:xt1xzi0r][/url:xt1xzi0r]
[size=100:xt1xzi0r][b:xt1xzi0r][url=http://"http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.com/":xt1xzi0r]A Widnesian in Ireland blog[/url:xt1xzi0r][/size:xt1xzi0r][/b:xt1xzi0r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6396.jpg |
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| Quote: trys'r'us "I did the same thing (ESPN Classic?) and, to take it further, the standard was terrible. Both offensively and defensively. Neither team playing that day would even hold down a place in SL, let alone compete internationally.
Wally Lewis was the only player who really looked like he would have done a decent job were he playing now. Having said that, the wingers, particularly Offiah and Gill, would probably be just about as good as what we've got now. The rest were well below in pretty much every area you could name. The skillsets were terrible, with almost every pass thrown from standing and most being either inaccurate or slow. Ball retention was also pretty poor and the defences were a shambles. Add in the lack of fitness and general lack of athleticism, and it didn't make for a very high standard game (by modern standards, at least).'"
Because the players weren't full time professionals they weren't built as big and were often faster, especially the wingers.
In today's game Offiah and Gill would have had to bulk up considerably or they wouldn't stand a chance.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 1557 | No Team Selected |
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6396_1303160216.jpg [url=http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=widnesvikingsnetkk1.jpg:xt1xzi0r][img:xt1xzi0r]http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7566/widnesvikingsnetkk1.th.jpg[/img:xt1xzi0r][/url:xt1xzi0r]
[size=100:xt1xzi0r][b:xt1xzi0r][url=http://"http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.com/":xt1xzi0r]A Widnesian in Ireland blog[/url:xt1xzi0r][/size:xt1xzi0r][/b:xt1xzi0r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6396.jpg |
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| Quote: Maximus Decimus "Because the players weren't full time professionals they weren't built as big and were often faster, especially the wingers. I think this often gives the impression that the game was better and that they were more skilful.
In today's game Offiah and Gill would have had to bulk up considerably or they wouldn't stand a chance. Look at a player like Kevin Penny, lightening quick, good hands but he struggles at this level because he's not bulky enough. '"
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8903.gif [quote="dave m":36nw6ut6]Briscoe couldn't get into Wigans Team because of Radlinski even though Radlinski was playing crap at the time still better than old bent nose.[/quote:36nw6ut6]
[quote="redtillimdead":36nw6ut6]Oh and as for Briscoe,if he was that fab,why did Wigan see fit to let him leave?[/quote:36nw6ut6]:8903.gif |
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| They were both built much bigger than Penny though and, whilst they would've needed to bulk up more, it would be much easier for them to adapt to today's game than it would've been for just about everyone else.
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34_1430670222.jpg [url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-n8:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]An Ode to Sepp Blatter[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=http://wp.me/s1ImSi-dadbod:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Dadbod[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-mK:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Next In Line To The Throne[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=https://mcclennan.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/st-helens-and-a-fitting-end-to-a-season-of-unsung-heroes/:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]St Helens and a Fitting End to a Season of Unsung Heroes[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
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[url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-aA:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Top 100 films of the 00s - The Top 5[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34.jpg |
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| Some great posts on here in response to BK. I have lost the will to debate with him so thanks to those of you who have the energy and patience. Anyone who watches pre-professional era RL cannot fail to notice how much better the game is now. All the arguments about great players have been discussed and discussed well.
I'm surprised that none of the anti-competition cap haven't pointed to the fact that we haven't beaten the Australians since Super League or the salary cap like we were obviously doing before profesionalism, ignoring the fact that the Australians went professional as well.
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| Quote: McClennan "Some great posts on here in response to BK. I have lost the will to debate with him so thanks to those of you who have the energy and patience. Anyone who watches pre-professional era RL cannot fail to notice how much better the game is now. All the arguments about great players have been discussed and discussed well.
I'm surprised that none of the anti-competition cap haven't pointed to the fact that we haven't beaten the Australians since Super League or the salary cap like we were obviously doing before profesionalism, ignoring the fact that the Australians went professional as well.'"
My main argument is we havent beaten the Aussies since the year we went to two divisions.
RL had one big league - we regularly beat the Aussies
Split the leagues, we stop beating them...coincidence? I think not
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34_1430670222.jpg [url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-n8:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]An Ode to Sepp Blatter[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=http://wp.me/s1ImSi-dadbod:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Dadbod[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-mK:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Next In Line To The Throne[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=https://mcclennan.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/st-helens-and-a-fitting-end-to-a-season-of-unsung-heroes/:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]St Helens and a Fitting End to a Season of Unsung Heroes[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=https://twitter.com/cinematicsoul:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Follow my wisdom on Twitter[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
[url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-aA:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]Top 100 films of the 00s - The Top 5[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34.jpg |
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| Quote: Code13 "My main argument is we havent beaten the Aussies since the year we went to two divisions.
RL had one big league - we regularly beat the Aussies
Split the leagues, we stop beating them...coincidence? I think not
I hear what you're saying. Super League with no other semi-professional leagues below i.e. mergers. Excellent idea. I'm all for it
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[size=100:xt1xzi0r][b:xt1xzi0r][url=http://"http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.com/":xt1xzi0r]A Widnesian in Ireland blog[/url:xt1xzi0r][/size:xt1xzi0r][/b:xt1xzi0r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6396.jpg |
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| Quote: Code13 "My main argument is we havent beaten the Aussies since the year we went to two divisions.
RL had one big league - we regularly beat the Aussies
Split the leagues, we stop beating them...coincidence? I think not
There's far more to it than that.
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Rugby League : Alive and Handling: |
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| Quote: gutterfax "Yeah...right
On the money mate. Moran was outstanding for you guys (Broncos...)
I actually have a mate, southerner who knows nothing about rugby of any sort. He made some serious cash spread-betting on Moran;s try scoring at the Broncos, just by following the stats.
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