pretty much spot on, its Canada not cold war era east Berlin or soviet union. or north Korea or Iran.

British.

Also another view is that it’s just posters who aren’t keen on Toronto finding any stick they can to beat them with and why they shouldn’t be in our structure.

I don’t know if Toronto/North America will work in the long term but it’s definitely worth trying to crack that market. If some genuine reasons why it can’t or doesn’t happen then fair enough, but a few daft players maybe not getting to play one fixture a year because of their own stupidity and their own clubs disorganisation definitely isn’t one of reasons.

Agreed; my take on the Toronto project is that if it's used as a jumping off point for a North American league, meaning that at some point they'll join that as founder members, with all the expertise and experience of playing in the ESL, then it will have been a success. One would hope that the links between the two organisations would remain strong, based on the springboard ESL provided - and that can only be good for the long term future of the game.

If that means some fairly minor administrative tasks for other clubs in the meantime, and the occasional missed game for some of our less savoury players, it seems a reasonable price to pay.

So the player has to provide the paperwork to show he served his time, paid the fine, got discharged, did the community service, or whatever. That can take time.

The UK has refused admission over the years to quite a few Aussies/Pacific region players.

It seems pretty obvious that there are numerous issues to overcome with playing a team in a different country and these needed to be dealt with by the RFL and not fudged at the expense of the clubs. HKR have signed players that are legally allowed to play in the country in which the league that they started the season is based. We have fulfilled our obligation as a club to follow the rules of the game.

If it is merely a meeting and a stamp by the authorities it is maybe not an ideal but bearable situation. If any of those players are refused the right to travel it denudes the integrity of the entire competition. Whilst people throw around Carney's name, just imagine if one of the players is someone who was signed before TWP were even admitted into the leagues, how can that be our fault? The people who say don't sign a player who has a criminal record because we might finish bottom 4 and TWP might finish top 4 and the stars may align so that our position means we have to travel to Toronto at 3 weeks notice really need to start thinking more about the realities of the situation!

Good post pal.

If the visa,s to enter Canada are dated as to the dates they enter and leave Canadian soil.clubs have only known when they were playing in Canada for less than a week

Blame Ralph Rimmer, RFL organiser in chief at the start of the season. It isn't as if it wasn't common knowledge that some clubs in SL were likely to need to travel, nor that those in danger make end of season signings. It certainly makes more sense for the information and processes to be put in place centrally than for each club to discover them individually.

It doesn't. The clubs understand the personal circumstances of their employees better than the RFL, they already file paperwork with relevant authorities for their players - adding a simple process at club level should not cause this level of trouble.

Canada hosts numerous international sporting events every year and we don't hear these types of stories. I can't imagine tennis forums were full of people decrying this week's Toronto Masters event - probably because the players and their management are all perfectly capable of arranging a piece of paper.

Only in rugby league do certain quarters happen to make such a faff of it and shout loudly about their own incompetance.

Of course, that's the ideal situation. However, there is/has been the scenario of a Championship club who suffered a raft of injuries in the period building up to their trip, had a couple of players suspended, and a couple who couldn't get time off work. Maybe that's an extreme situation, but it can happen, especially towards the end of the season, which is when virtually all Championship clubs played at Toronto. So, say a club starts with 25 players on their rota, in February, but by July is suddenly missing say ten players - then they may well have issues obtaining visas in time to travel.

Also, why should it be an issue with the Middle 8's? Surely all SL clubs, especially with their levels of admin staff (compared with Championship clubs) would also have obtained visas, just in case they ended up in the Middle 8's?

I didn't say fill in the forms for them but to create a blueprint process rather than let everyone spend time learning what could have been documented before they needed to do it. THEN let the clubs follow the process using their knowledge of the players. For instance not every club knows the criminal past of their players as some players may have spent convictions that they 'forgot' about. Also it can take weeks/months to get the paperwork to prove that a conviction is, indeed, spent, as you may have to go to the courts to get it. As the criteria seems to include being charged, not just convicted, someone could work out the documentation that would be needed in such a case where the player was charged but no further action was taken,etc. One doesn't need the details of the players, nor have the insight of mystic meg to work this stuff out in advance and run a workshop with clubs, or just document and circulate to pass on the knowledge and to get feedback to improve the process.

P.S. I doubt that the clubs do know about these issues that create difficulties. A friend of mine is coach at a side that went to Canada and they didn't know, and from what he was told by coaches from other clubs, neither did the other clubs.

Oh sorry thought you had a problem with employing criminals, obviously only have a problem with clubs not being able to sort paperwork for the criminals they employ

I'm still working out how HKR can get branded as tinpot for not starting the process sooner, when the earliest they will have known their dates of travel was last Wednesday.

Simple. All the SL teams should have allowed for being in the Middle 8's and sorted out the paperwork pre-season!