I hope he does really well, he has an amazing skillset. My only concern is his injuries but I have a feeling after a while they'll cease to be a problem.

The myth is a strong one then, the fans believe it, the Clubs in England believe it.
Who else is there to convince?

I said as least as fit as England I was being sarcastic, have you ever heard anyone say the England players are fitter than the Kangaroo's or the Kiwis and we will grind them down in the last quarter of the game?

I have never heard or seen any suggestion that if it came down to fitness or conditioning England/GB had the edge. I don't have a friend that knows these things. Which players did you talk too?

Fitness has lots to do with metres gained, tackles, fatigue, out of position etc.
Classic example in the final where Peacock was wandering around taking a breather as Gallen ran straight passed him for JT's try.

I have seen Graham play many times both at Test level and for Saints, I think he is a good player. We have TV's here nowadays and recorders, not to mention computers.

Its all good Rooster we all have our opinions.

Can I ask why you keep swearing in your posts?

Young kids frequent this forums I am told, the swear filter is there for that reason, you seem to be intentionally bypassing it.

Lesser players than Graham have succeeded in the NRL including Australians.

Ryan Tandy won Grand Finals in the NRL. It's safe to say Ricky Bibey could cope with it.

I think plenty of people have said that about Great Britain/England over the Kiwi’s. Even as recently as the 2007 series that GB won, the British had the edge in fitness going into the last quarter

In my history of watching Great Britain/England play its a pretty straight forward formulae

If it was close going into last quarter against Australia, I would expect us to lose

If it was close going into last quarter against New Zealand, I would expect us to win

Whether this is confidence, concentration, professionalism or fitness is debatable but the latter would have helped

Jonesy, I had this debate on here a few years ago and I still stand by my word that there is next to no difference between the two countries in terms of conditioning ability (I disagree a bit with RB with regards to coaching methods), the simple fact is that the athletes that australia has to choose from are simply better. Thats it. I fail to see where all these smoke and mirrors comes from. Far bigger pool = better players: end of conversation.

Because it's always played in England in February and Australian's aren't used to playing in those conditions and are typically less prepared than the SL side as the seasons are not aligned.

As above the world club challenge is bang in their pre season and the English teams are in their season.

Unfortunately they do Jonesy. That's the problem. They see that they lose at international level. They see that the NRL self-proclaims itself as the best RL comp in the world. They then believe that the coaching and conditioning must be superior and one of the contributory factors to that. They believe that and act on it, rather than realising it's all about the amount of talent that Australia continually has on offer. You can name dozens of australians that are superb players in the last 20 years. In GB we have nowhere near that many, You have great talent and always will.

Consider this. Do you believe that people like Brad Fittler was a great player because he was coached by Phil Gould or conditioned by Ronnie Palmer? Andrew Johns by Mal Reilly? Darren Lockyer was a superb players because of Wayne Bennett. Do you believe that the likes of Billy Slater was spotted because they were getting great coaching whilst playing at Norths Devils? Or Akuila Uate at Woy Woy Roosters. Or do you think these people and many others had great natural ability?

Also consider this comment from Wayne Bennett in 2006:- "Kelvin Giles set the benchmark when he joined the club in 1990 and we sustained that for 10 years"

Kelvin Giles won 2 prems with Brisbane and was also performance director for Canberra when they won a couple of premierships in the late 80s. He then went to the London Broncos and???

I understand why clubs in the UK do it. We pay good money to australian coaches, conditioners etc. to go to the UK. You'd have thought that in the last 30 years, we'd have learnt how to beat Australia with all these minds and their coaching, training techniques. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. My opinion is that we lose, because of the quality of the cattle. Not totally on how they're fed.

I know I am in a tiny minority and I appreciate that we won't agree on this, but it would be good if people in the UK stop harping on about how good the coaching and conditioning "must be" in Oz. This is a safe conclusion for our regular defeats and for me a bit of a cop out. Our players have been coached and conditioned by aussies for years at various clubs.


Apologies for swearing Jonesy. I used it in a run of the mill english expression. Will try and withhold future slang expressions containing profanities. And for those that don't know him, Kelvin Giles is English.

You can have all the talent in the world but you won't fulfill your potential without good coaching or if you do it will take longer. I understand your point and agree on the conditioning aspect, however the quality of coaching is better in Australia than it is in the UK simply because, as you've stated with players, there's more people doing it. Therefore by extending your logic it stands that the numbers participating are likely to increase innovation, expertise and quality. Conditioning is different because that's a skill that's tied to sports sciences rather than specifically to our sport.

Therefore, if you have better players and better coaches in your competition it's likely to generate a tougher fixture list, intensity etc., hence the in-built advantage the NRL offers RL countries with players in it.

I'm sure it plays a part but if Australia are THAT good and far advanced, dominating shouldn't be a problem at all.

No, the problem with England's international RL is twofold; management and mentals. The recent 4n is a classic example, there were players selected who are past their international sell-by date and in the final again that combined with poor mental conditioning resulted in England's worst performance of the entire tournament.

I would say that mentally this year's side was one of the best I've seen so I'm not sure how you've arrived at that opinion. If anything they kept themselves in the final because of it when we were being played off the park.

Think Ian Smith was more responsible for that. England froze in the final, end of story. They see the green and gold jersey in a big game and the legs turn to jelly. It's not talent or physical prowess that England lack. It's belief, plain and simple. Belief in themselves and their teammates. If you don't believe that you can achieve something, then you won't be able to do it

I understand your point about numbers, But what do you think that Australian coaches do that's so different? What do you think NRL coaches do? You say players with talent will reach their potential (which is actually immeasurable) but it will take longer.

I would love you and others to come over here to see for yourselves rather than presuming that their coaching is better. Think about the fact that in the UK there are so many Australian coaches. What are they coaching? Something different? Has no one learnt anything?

And of the Englishmen who came and went back like Adrian Morley, Chris Thorman, Jordan Tansey and Mike Worrincy? Are they now better players?

As I said, I've worked with players and interviewed players for this website years ago who have played in both comps and they say the main difference is not coaching, fitness etc. It's the level and depth of talent. I'm gonna listen to those who have lived it.