Not sure swings and roundabouts sums it up. Both sides were as equally crass in their statements. Hate and fear predominated in all assertions. Most assertions being larger than life, another word for it is lies. Not much different from any other political campaign and now the reneging on promises or denial that something was ever offered is in full swing. I'm sure it would have been the case if the result had gone the other way. The joke is some of these politicians are now commenting on how it was a well debated campaign. Any voter, whatever perspective struggled to find any statistics or views that could be relied on to make any informed judgements. Some are now trying to suggest that a period of reflection is needed before we enter discussions.

The main facts in all of this are that we were all let down by the politicians and the media in terms of debate.
We are all entering a period of the Unknown.
The divisions in the country hidden (ignored?) by the first past the post system are now rather clear.
We will all now discover the economic implications which in reality as it always does will hit the poorest and disadvantaged the most.

You may not want to see what Leave has unleashed. You may not be able to see it. But its still there. The sad thing is, you're exhibiting it yourself: aggression to those who disagree, offensive dismissing of others' genuine fears, a preference for claiming victimhood over engaging with arguments. You can't see it. That's what makes this so worrying for the rest of us.

The majority of Wales too showed good sense too to make their decision on the big picture.

.......and the less in touch in touch with the electorate!

Wales is an interesting one. By head it receives more money back from the EU than as part of the U.K. it proportionally puts in. How this is addressed in the future is going to be a headache for the Welsh assembly.

& I'll come back at you with World War 111, tariff wars, emergency budgets, back of the queue in trade talks with U.S.



"One academic" - oh well, you've now convinced me!

Getting bored of the insults now, getting bored of the frankly immature foot stomping and petitions and fear mongering.

How do countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, USA, every other half wealthy country not of European descent cope?

Our kids apparently can't move to Germany or live in Spain or go to university in France or buy beer in Belgium anymore ffs, listen to yourselves.

How did this barman from Australia end up serving me a pint in Shepherds Bush he's not in Europe?
How did the American study at Cambridge if he's not in Europe?
How did my uncle move to New Zealand, buy a house, get a job and marry a kiwi, a non European Kiwi at that.

Where is our spirit? Do people not realise the strength of our economy, it's just took a battering yet still stronger than most of Europe's.

When did we become a nation of crying weak mindless morons that would give self determination up for the sake of an easier crossing into France and this perceived erosion of rights? Get a grip why is the next government going to turn around and say, we are scrapping maternity leave or we are making 70 hour weeks mandatory.

Good god, the vast overreaction would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I love how I'm being told the reasons why i voted out, like i didn't have a mind of my own, i love it how all the remainers researched every last nook and cranny to the N'th degree and the leave just turned up on the day, sang Rule Britannia punched an immigrant and wrote an X in a box with their monkey feet.

I'm afraid Obama repeated this position yesterday. This was after all a comment the Americans made during the run in.

America, Canada and even Ze Germans have backtracked on their initial threats, has have France.

Money talks at the end of the day, we have lots of it.

No they haven't. In fact they're currently demanding we start the process NOW, while your Leave leaders are trying desperately to delay. They've also already said there'll be no special deals, and when we're out, we're out. Frankfurt and Paris have already started lobbying to place tariffs on City transactions (our largest export), leading to some financial institutions to talk about relocation. In manufacturing, several multinational companies including Ford, and Ryanair have announced they're suspending or reviewing future investment in the UK starting now. Yesterday many British companies had 20-30% wiped off their value in one day, the FTSE 250 had its largest single day loss ever, and the pound is at a low level it hasn't seen for 30 years.

This isn't opinion. It isn't scaremongering. It's actual fact. It's what actually happened in the last 36 hours.

Leave voters voted for a fantasy based on lies. They told experts that they knew better. Well they didn't. So don't come here talking about French and German "backtracking". That's just as much a lie as the lie that this will reduce immigration (go check what the Leave leaders - not Farage, but the actual leaders like Give, Johnson and Hannan have said in the last 24 hours about how they've no intention of reducing immigration).

We're not in the EU club now. They have no reason to play nice, and every reason to crush us. The proportion of our economy dependent on them is far, far bigger than the reverse. There are no friends in business.

This was a vote for economic suicide. It's of no consolation to be able to say I told you do, because you're dragging me and the other 48% down with you.

Funny to see the arrogant insulting nonsense being spouted by those that voted to remain as they squirm to try and claim they somehow are better than the majority who voted to leave. Their failure to understand that half the country dislikes the undemocratic protectionist and seriously failing EU and were prepared to take a risk to win back democratic control.

If these voters lack the same formal qualifications of those oh so smug remainiacs then they have more than made up for this by showing better common sense and admirable character in refusing to be bullied. A triumph for democracy.

All hail intellegant proffesor Haggerty, I'm surprised many of us little England racist xenophobes could Muster the intelligence to pick up a pen and actually put a cross in a box let alone research both sides and make our opinion ourselves.

You are in the minority Roy, deal with it and stop acting like such a smug t0$ser

Jesus, this is bizarre.

Leaver "Here's a statement which is demonstrably not true"
Remain "That statement's demonstrably not true. Here's a fact instead. By the way, while we know not all Leavers are racist, it's worrying that all the racists and fascists are on your side of this argument."
Leaver "I'm so sick of the remain voters with their sneery superiority telling us facts and quoting experts, and telling us we're al racists. It's precisely when you start insulting all people on one side, like all the Remainers with their snooty metropolitan arguments and "reality" do, that you make things worse."
Remain "Right. You know I didn't do that, right? Not all Leavers are racists. By the way, here's another fact"
Leave "You're at it again. Calling us all racists with your metropolitan sneer of education and knowledge."
Remain "Wtf is actually happening here?"

Tell you what. You find a single sentence and quote it here where I've described all leave voters in derogatory terms of any sort, and I'll apologise. If you can't, you come here and apologise for being deeply offensive just because I posted arguments which you didn't like.

In fact, take a look at the following quotes from this thread which have been aimed at me, personally













Perhaps firstly, spend some time trying to find any equivalent statement on here where I personally insult a fellow poster for having different views. I don't mean disagree, I mean actually ad hom attack them.

I'll keep this updated for as long as it takes to make the point. Who is aggressive and insulting here?

It's your overall tone Roy, I like most people accept and respect anyone's opinions who was eligible to vote. your point of view that all/most people who voted out was either a pensioner and/or uneducated is as a load of cr@p and about as wrong as the polls were. The majority of the people have had enough of the eu.... It might be joe who works at KFC for a living who voted or it might be Rashiq who works as a manager at Barclays.... It doesn't matter, everyone has an equal view and an equal say. You need to deal with what the majority want..... Or move, Upto you.