The Challenge Cup isnt meant to decide the best team in the country. It isnt and never was formatted to do so and it never attempted to do so. so as a judgement of the best team in the country it is worthless.

And Saints, in an uneven fixture list won the LLS by 1 point in each of those seasons, besides the GF decides the best team, we know this at the start of each and every season, being top after 27 rounds makes you champions as much as being top after 10 rounds does.

winning the 09 GF meant more by becoming the first 3 in a row champions than it did to win the LLS as well. frankly i couldnt care less about coming first or second in the league. Its a build up to the play-offs.

plus, when we change to a conference system the LLS will be as worthwhile as the lazenby cup

Rubbish, the best is the best over the season. The playoffs are a seperate competition for the elite to show off and earn money

I think Leeds will be the strongest team by a distance this year. They have improved thier squad whereas Saints seem to be an ageing team in need of some fresh impetus. Wigan basically have the same squad plus Paul Deacon so I'm interested to see what changes Maguire will make. If he's learned anything from his time at Melbourne Wigan should be much improved on last year. Same goes for Wire too so It'll be one of those three that finishes 2nd behind Leeds. Anything can happen in the playoffs so it'll be pointless to try and predict that before a pointhhas been scored in the season

thats the problem with SL in that leeds can save their best till last and still be coming first for much of the year, or 2nd if not 1st

in terms of sqauds id say warrington on paper are better than leeds. buderus is v.good, but eastwood is just a fat kiwi.

smith managed to break leeds SL duck.

weather it be complacency or better form, leeds are certainly beatable

when i look at the leeds side i dont think world champion team. if it were, why isnt the GB team much better

if another team gets their act together they can knock the rhinos off their perch

You are correct in saying that you beat us in the play-offs on those occasions above but to say we weren't the better side in those 2 previous seasons is a bit daft imo.
We spanked you in 07 both in the league and the GF after being underdogs,we then did you again in 08 after being underdogs and finally we finished top and beat you again in the 09 GF.
Iirc isn't the idea to win the GF????????
Afterall i don't remember you being labelled Champions after beating us in the play-off rounds!
Saints have been a great side as have the Bulls but this current era in championship terms is Blue and Amber imo.

I look forward to seeing this "fat kiwi" tear the SL up and i'd rather have him than any of the wire back-row.
As for another team stepping up that's a big IF.
Lets not forget we've more depth and quality this year and whilst i agree TS is a great coach and broke our SL championship duck the Rhinos 04 squad was much better than the 2010 wire one is IMO.

As a Wire fan I have to diagree. Leeds have been very good in the last four/five years, but over the whole of SL Saints have consistently played the best rugby, always been dangerous in attack but with strong defence, and have ammased a shedload of trophies while being an attractive side to watch. It doesn't make it easier losing to them as often as we have, but it's the truth.

During the last 5 yrs we've played in 4GF'S winning 3 on the bounce and losing 1 to a team that broke the cap and i'd say that's more recent than the whole SL era and i am not playing down saints success either.

I aren't a St Helens fan by the way.

The idea is to win the GF, you are right. It is what gives you the right to be called champions. But winning one game doesn't make you the best team all the time. Would you say that New Zealand were better than Australia for that one World Cup win? I wouldn't.

St Helens have been the most consistent side over the last 5 years. Only last year did they not win anything. Leeds come good at the end of the season, which to be fair is all they need to do. But that is not as much of an achievement in my eyes as winning every available trophy in one season. Somebody has to win the championship every year. Somebody doesn't have to win every trophy though, so when that happens it's more special.

Of course, this is all opinion.

Isn't there an uneven fixture list every year? It's a bit of a cop-out. We could always bring up the Millennium Magic incident if we wanted to get an extra 2 points back!

Like I said previously, the champion side only need to come good at the end of the year. But is it better coming good at the end of the year three times in a row, or coming good all year and winning everything? Which one is the bigger achievement?


We're changing to conferences?
And if we did, there wouldn't be a LLS anyway, because there wouldn't be a league leader. There might be a conference leader, and they may get a shield, but that obviously wouldn't be as important as the GF because it wouldn't feature all the best teams.

Just on a side note, if Catalans won the league from 8th three times in a row, would people still consider them the best team in the country? Or that they just came good at the end?

You're completely playing down Saints success there.

In the same time period, Saints have finished top of the league 4 seasons in a row, won the Challenge Cup 3 seasons in a row, knocked out in the semis in the other 2 seasons, won the GF once, and reached the GF three further times.

Maybe they're just burnt out at the end of the season after playing so many games more than everyone else every year?

The best side that year (arguably) is the GF winning team. But when you compare season on season achievements of teams, you need to look at more than just being the champion side.

Maybe wire will do something this season.

However, I think we need to be more cautious about Wigan.

Everyone is talking up there new coach, but in reality, his experience is very limited.

I can't help thinking Wigan have a Newcastle United syndrome, thinking that the Massiah will come (has come). No one has yet to suggest that perhaps Nobby in fact got the best out of the side, that semi finals in the playoffs is about where that squad is.

Sure, there are some very good performers (with sam having the potential to be great), but many who are ok, who might produce the odd great performance but who really are just average players.

I really like Wigan and Wiganers and always enjoy matches there, often supporting Wigan when it is a 'neutral' match for me, but I can't help feeling that they'll do worse this season than last, and that the hype we've seen about increased fitness and 'comfort zones' is just that.

Riddell and Feka both look a hell of a lot fitter to me.

I think Wigan will stay under the radar a bit this year, people will say that a change of coaching staff alone won't help us, but I think we could get some silverware.

heck he doesnt look like piggy any more