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Quote: rugbyreddog "RU seem to have a better system. Saracens have just been fined £5.3 mill and docked 35 points.'"


After failing to disclose payments to players in 16-17, 17-18 and 18-19.

Big difference.

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The current superleague champions will be playing Toronto at saracens ground next season

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Quote: rugbyreddog "RU seem to have a better system. Saracens have just been fined £5.3 mill and docked 35 points.'"

For a far, far bigger offence.

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Quote: Him "For a far, far bigger offence.'"

Cap Breach = Cap Breach.
I think the point is that Union patently have a determination to inflict real hardship, no matter who breaks the cap, whilst we just pussyfoot around. Imagine if leeds had been docked 35 points...they'd be relegated and need to come back up, but until we grow a set, the likes of Leeds and Wigan will break the rules thinking they are bigger than the game, which they probably are if we are honest.

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Quote: Him "For a far, far bigger offence.'"


It was but a salary cap breach should never result in just a fine, it doesn't make sense. Even a £1 breach should be points deduction of some sort otherwise it juts becomes a financial decision to go over.

A club wants to spend 50k over the cap knowing it will only receive a 50k fine, if they can afford 100k it then why not.

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Quote: barham red "It was but a salary cap breach should never result in just a fine, it doesn't make sense. Even a £1 breach should be points deduction of some sort otherwise it juts becomes a financial decision to go over.

A club wants to spend 50k over the cap knowing it will only receive a 50k fine, if they can afford 100k it then why not.'"

All theoretical, wilfully going over the cap by £50k will make little or no difference to the team. Hiding player benefits to pool top talent who ordinarily would not fit under the cap for a few season is a completely different matter. I think it's about right as we have it,maybe a slight tweak where by if it's under an agreed amount you get an equivalent fine and it is deducted off next years total.

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Quote: AXE2GRIND "Cap Breach

And Salford, Wakefield, St Helens, Halifax, Hull FC and Bradford.....

But yeah, that doesn't necessarily fit the "big bad Leeds & Wigan" narrative.

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Quote: bramleyrhino "And Salford, Wakefield, St Helens, Halifax, Hull FC and Bradford.....

But yeah, that doesn't necessarily fit the "big bad Leeds & Wigan" narrative.'"


You mention all of those clubs but, which of them have transgressed under the live cap
Back in the early days, although the cap was in operation, for the smaller clubs not able to spend the full cap, this was set under an unknown level of income, if you like guesswork, which certainly hasn't been the case for Leeds and Wigan, both of whom, can spend the maximum cap.

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Quote: AXE2GRIND "Cap Breach
No it doesn’t. That’s nonsense. A punishment for a cap breach should be proportionate to the size and nature of the breach.

All breaches should carry a points deduction but that’s where the similarities to this Union case should end. Neither the Wigan nor the Leeds breach are deserving of anything close to this kind of punishment. A 2 point deduction and fine is perfectly sufficient as a deterrence. With punishments increasing if the same clubs offend again.

As for thinking they are bigger than the game you just make yourself look daft with that comment as plenty of clubs have broken the cap.

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Quote: barham red "It was but a salary cap breach should never result in just a fine, it doesn't make sense. Even a £1 breach should be points deduction of some sort otherwise it juts becomes a financial decision to go over.

A club wants to spend 50k over the cap knowing it will only receive a 50k fine, if they can afford 100k it then why not.'"

Agreed. All breaches however small should carry a points deduction.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "You mention all of those clubs but, which of them have transgressed under the live cap
Back in the early days, although the cap was in operation, for the smaller clubs not able to spend the full cap, this was set under an unknown level of income, if you like guesswork, which certainly hasn't been the case for Leeds and Wigan, both of whom, can spend the maximum cap.'"


Wigan, Salford and Leeds have all transgressed under the new live cap system. But if we're going down the "breach is a breach" narrative, then all breaches of the rules should be treated as such. The rules in the RFL operational guide is clear and there for all to see - and has been since the introduction of the cap.

When Wigan were caught most recently I said that the points deductions were justified if only for the stupidity (rather than the scale) of the breach. I stand by that in the case of Leeds as well. These "admin errors" need stamping out. In the same vein, I'd also apply the same standard to clubs who look to seek commercial advantages by breaching minimum wage regulations.

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Quote: Him "No it doesn’t. That’s nonsense. A punishment for a cap breach should be proportionate to the size and nature of the breach.

All breaches should carry a points deduction but that’s where the similarities to this Union case should end. Neither the Wigan nor the Leeds breach are deserving of anything close to this kind of punishment. A 2 point deduction and fine is perfectly sufficient as a deterrence. With punishments increasing if the same clubs offend again.

As for thinking they are bigger than the game you just make yourself look daft with that comment as plenty of clubs have broken the cap.'"


Do you think that the bigger clubs would be heavily fined or points deducted, if they seriously transgressed ?

The recent "over spend" by both Wigan and Leeds dont even come close to the Wigan breech, when Fielden and Radlinski bolstered their squad a few years ago and I believe that it was the lack of real punishment on that occasion that seemed to set the precedent.
Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that if there was a genuine threat of relegation, both clubs would survive first and worry about the consequences later, knowing that their legal teams and their "clout" would spare them any significant punishment.

Although there was a massive difference in the behavior of Leeds and Wigan, compared with Saracens, you would gamble that they would have been hit a little harder if The RFU were running our sport.

When you consider their action to that of Elstone, when Wigan were caught, you just know how things are in our game.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Do you think that the bigger clubs would be heavily fined or points deducted, if they seriously transgressed ?

The recent "over spend" by both Wigan and Leeds dont even come close to the Wigan breech, when Fielden and Radlinski bolstered their squad a few years ago and I believe that it was the lack of real punishment on that occasion that seemed to set the precedent.
Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that if there was a genuine threat of relegation, both clubs would survive first and worry about the consequences later, knowing that their legal teams and their "clout" would spare them any significant punishment.

Although there was a massive difference in the behavior of Leeds and Wigan, compared with Saracens, you would gamble that they would have been hit a little harder if The RFU were running our sport.

When you consider their action to that of Elstone, when Wigan were caught, you just know how things are in our game.'"


There was no breach of the cap or the rules

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Quote: bramleyrhino "And Salford, Wakefield, St Helens, Halifax, Hull FC and Bradford.....

But yeah, that doesn't necessarily fit the "big bad Leeds & Wigan" narrative.'"


It's known as Diddy club mentality! Ignore it!

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Quote: rugbyreddog "RU seem to have a better system. Saracens have just been fined £5.3 mill and docked 35 points.'"

Yeah for having dealings with companies with names like Faz Investments Ltd, Wiggy9 Investments and VunaProp Ltd!
At least try and hide the evidence!

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