And by the way - don't get me wrong. I think Hardaker is an excellent player. He has been unfairly treated because of his misdemeanours and yet he's had his strongest season to date. He is a good runner, but I wouldn't say he is devastating like Sam was at Wigan. Zak hasn't really been exposed at the highest level yet - international/NRL - so maybe we'll see?

I don't know what you mean about the half back thing? Sam will end up there just as Darren Lockyer did. He has all the skills and played most of his life there anyway.

Its interesting to hear this testimony from a Wigan fan. Whilst I'm not implying Tomkins is anything but a phenomenal talent ball in hand, I did often think that the wigan system showcased/exaggerated/supercharged his talents by working very hard (and very well) to give him space to run at.

I don't think Hardaker gets this benefit at Leeds, maybe because of the presence of super centres Watkins and Moon, maybe because McDermott can't nail those wide moves as well as McGuire/Wane, but the more I see of Hardaker, the more he convinces me that he's the better all round full back. Sam's not here for me to see and give an account for himself though, so my judgement may be a tad unfair.

More than anything, though, I'm just bitter at the way Johnny Lomax's career's gone

I'm not convinced the Warriors style of play is the main reason Tomkins hasn't stood out as much in the NRL as he did prior to he left. He's probably the Warriors' most creative player, and his running and passing coming into the line is still the strongest area of his game.
His defence isn't as bad as it's made out to be either, he's error prone, but so are FB's more highly rated than he is. Where I think he's struggled the most is his kick returns. I don't have the stats, but from watching him I don't think he returns the ball as well as other FBs, he doesn't look as quick to me either and I think that's blunted his effectiveness somewhat.

I've said it for a couple of years now that he should move back to 6. His skill set is now more suited to that, and his weaknesses won't be as exploitable playing there.

Just to add, I'd definitely take him at Leeds, but not as a FB.

Anther perceptive sensible post in what is becoming a reasonable debate.

He prefers to offload to the winger on a kick return if he doesn't spot a gap, with the intention of getting a quick play the ball to then take off(eg Away at Wire in the Challenge Cup QF 2011 IIRC).

I'll fix that.



No, it's because he's a cowardly little rat.

That worked in 2011, is it the most effective method for the 2015 version of Tomkins? I'm not sure.

Good player is Hardaker but you're incredibly deluded if you believe that. Leeds fan I take it? You have to be with a statement like that.

From what I've read from your 18 or so posts, your words are that defensive that you almost appear related to Sam - or perhaps you're just deeply in love with him?

Look, every club is going to back their own, but chill a bit - this isn't a hate campaign against ST.

I'm a long time Leeds fan and would love to have ST in the team, of course I would, but certainly not at the expense of Hardaker who, as has been pointed out, is a better all round full-back (again, just my opinion).

Tomkins's skills lie in his running ability, as such (and unless you change things around in your style of play that you allow him the space he needs) he's not great full back material. Without wanting to repeat myself, he's suspect under the high ball and with his one on one defence.

By the way, I understand that Tomkins was bought back to Wigan due to the high likelihood of the Marquee rule being accepted by the SL clubs. Does this make him Wigan's marquee player? Surely his salary demands would mean that Wigan would be pushing beyond the boundaries of the salary cap if he isn't. Not that Wigan would ever dream of ever doing that kind of thing, you understand.

A pie calling someone deluded? In the cult stakes you make Scientology look reasonable. Feel free to replace the l with an n! Both statements fit the bill.

Just read the last few pages regarding the comparison between Hardaker and Tomkins.

They are both very different types of fullback. Tomkins is a highly skilled, explosive fullback who can score from pretty much anywhere on the field but has question marks over his defense. Hardaker is an all round exceptional fullback, good in attack and defence in equal measure.

As a Wigan fan I would rate them both equally so the preference is down to who would fit best for the way a team plays. Tomkins fits the bill perfectly for the way Wigan play as our systems where designed around him in the first place

Far from it - I was saying that before the Warriors signed him, and said that he'd be back with his tail between his legs within two years - homesickness is a well trodden excuse!

You cant beat it. The week when Sam was available fans of every team were wetting themselves (there were threads on Wire, Saints, Leeds forums saying how should go for him). Now they are panning the guy.

Got to love the fickle rugby fan.

Need i remind you all that you all did this when Sam was with Wigan the first time, and the guy just EXCELLED! 214 tries (scored or assisted) in 125 games.

here goes a bit of the myth busting!

Sam Tomkins (2011-2013 seasons when he played only at FB)
344 tackles
63 missed tackles
18.32% miss rate
errors 85
68 games
1.25 errors per game

Hardaker (2013-15, the seasons he has played exclusively FB)
341 tackles
67 missed tackles
19.65% miss rate
73 errors
58 games
1.259 errors/game

So it seems on these Stats thats Sam's 'weakness' is better than Hardakers 'strength'.

The amount of drivel spoken about Tomkins is unreal, people talk so much about him they create myths that become truths!
give me his defence and contribution to 214 tries in 125 games any day of the week!

You may as well climb on top of your house, pull your pants round your ankles and pi$$ into the wind mate. You can't reason with people that have their own bitter agendas.

I mean, in what world is Hardaker anywhere near Sam's level ffs? Baffling.

I'd agree with the saner posts here: Hardaker is a very good player indeed, certainly the best full-back in SL, and arguably (slightly) better than Sam in defence, without quite having his attacking skills.

I was hoping Sam had a good full season in the NRL this year; let's not forget last season was his rookie year in the most exposed position on the field. I hope and expect that he would improve in his second year, and come back an (even) better player than he left.