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Quote: Starbug "Remove the junior development aspect of your post and I actually agree, junior develoment of SL players should not be ' tasked ' to non SL clubs, non SL clubs should be judged on their development of non SL players'"

By junior development I wouldn’t really expect the ‘results’ to be evident. As you say, nigh on impossible for non SL clubs to produce SL players. But I think they could and should have their pathways in place, their links with amateur clubs, coaches, facilities etc, to be ready to go.

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Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "Personally I think we should either go all out franchising or P&R. If it was all out franchising then there should be a closed shop and clubs like York should become a feeder for Hull and Hunslet for Leeds. There should be no under 18 20 or whatever at the SL clubs, this should be at the feeder clubs. I think this is the way forward if the RFL want franchising. If not then P&R should be brought in.'"


But what do you want it to be?

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Quote: SmokeyTA "By junior development I wouldn’t really expect the ‘results’ to be evident. As you say, nigh on impossible for non SL clubs to produce SL players. But I think they could and should have their pathways in place, their links with amateur clubs, coaches, facilities etc, to be ready to go.'"


' Pathways ' , links to clubs, facilities, again if they are developing any of their own players, they already have them, so irrelivant

Its all down to finances . Nothing else matters

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Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "Personally I think we should either go all out franchising or P&R. If it was all out franchising then there should be a closed shop and clubs like York should become a feeder for Hull and Hunslet for Leeds. There should be no under 18 20 or whatever at the SL clubs, this should be at the feeder clubs. I think this is the way forward if the RFL want franchising. If not then P&R should be brought in.'"


Alright then.

Hull KR gets to be the feeder of Hull FC. Yes? No?

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Quote: SmokeyTA "Yes, your bringing up of Celtic Crusaders failure is clearly a great argument in favour of your position that Dewsbury should be able to be promoted to SL. After all Celtic had a big stadium and failed, just cos they have a big stadium doesnt mean they would get more fans, its not like Celtic Crusaders average attendance in their first year was 3668 which is 168 higher than the maximum capacity of Dewsburys stadium is it.............Oh'"

"Should be able" isn't the same as "Should be". You're the one that wrote-off the prospect of them *ever* being capable of playing in SL.

So the Crusaders debacle is not an argument in favour of anything to do with Dewsbury, although it would have been a good argument to support the thesis that the RFL is run by the hopelessly bewildered.

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Quote: RLBandit ""Should be able" isn't the same as "Should be". You're the one that wrote-off the prospect of them *ever* being capable of playing in SL.

So the Crusaders debacle is not an argument in favour of anything to do with Dewsbury, although it would have been a good argument to support the thesis that the RFL is run by the hopelessly bewildered.'"

Yes, I wrote off the prospect of Dewsbury, in their current form, ever being admitted to SL. I also pointed out to you a little while ago, when you couldn’t finish reading a whole sentence,
Quote: RLBandit "It should be self-evident to an adult human that if things change they will be different.
'"
. If Dewsbury change then they may be capable of being in SL, but they havent changed, and they havent started to change, put in place plans to change, havent even any kind of real will to change to get to that level. Frankly it would be idiotic of me, to take into account a possibility that hasnt happened, isnt likely to happen, isnt being attempted, has no real will behind it happening, or a plan for it happening. You seem to be quite hung up on it though, which is telling!

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Quote: SmokeyTA "I don’t think lower league clubs are expected to run SL level set ups. I don’t think anybody expects the same from a lower league club as an SL club.

As I have said before, the ‘competitive’ aspect of the franchising process is unhelpful. Lower league clubs shouldn’t aim to be better than the worst SL club, they should aim to be the best they can be and if that is good enough they should be promoted. If it isn’t, they shouldn’t.'"



Hang on a minute cowboy,you said these clubs had to produce players the same as super league clubs do?

Which one is it?

We produce then on peanuts or we don't?

And your dewsbury arguement were as this come from?

Like i SAID name which clubs year on year out in the lower leagues are growing on this system?????

Also years ago in the bad old days when keighley invented the super league change your name nonsense by branding themselves as cougars which at the time was scoffed at by now established super league clubs but readliy taken up by them[hello leeds and bradford] only to be turned down for promotion even though they were pulling in 6k crowds and now 900[great help there with your system] dewbury packing out there ground at the time they were red hot only to be knocked back and now 700[worked wonders again] hunslet yet again another knock back

Guess what the common denominator is? the fans said whats the point we can't go up and the game lost them forever.

Just be honset and say we only want these teams in and let the rest die in 4 years and then the great game is reduced to 14 teams,great stuff

So Leigh won 2 games,sounds similar to catalans first years and several others

Take away the hope and the leagues die

Like I said show me which teams are growing?

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Quote: Chris Dalton "Alright then.

Hull KR gets to be the feeder of Hull FC. Yes? No?'"


.....HULL FC would be better going straight to Australia themselves and cutting out the middle man icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Chris Dalton "Alright then.

Hull KR gets to be the feeder of Hull FC. Yes? No?'"


If that happened I would understand the reasons but I'd never support Hull FC and would probably not watch Hull KR. I can see the pros and cons of both ways but i'm sitting on the fence on this one icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "If that happened I would understand the reasons but I'd never support Hull FC and would probably not watch Hull KR. I can see the pros and cons of both ways but i'm sitting on the fence on this one
No, make your mind up, is it P and R or licencing ? ( with of course the potential for HKR to lose theirs )

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Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "If that happened I would understand the reasons but I'd never support Hull FC and would probably not watch Hull KR. I can see the pros and cons of both ways but i'm sitting on the fence on this one
You're not. You're taking sides except when faced with a very difficult reality.

Not a judgment on Hull KR, just thoose playing politics with the "small" clubs being treated like poker chips and dismissing concerns as "for the good of the game" would all change their tune if the situations were reversed.

Forcing independent, ancient, decent, loyal clubs to become feeder clubs for old rivals is offensive.

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Quote: jesus-is-coming "Hang on a minute cowboy,you said these clubs had to produce players the same as super league clubs do?

Which one is it?

We produce then on peanuts or we don't?

And your dewsbury arguement were as this come from?

Like i SAID name which clubs year on year out in the lower leagues are growing on this system?????

Also years ago in the bad old days when keighley invented the super league change your name nonsense by branding themselves as cougars which at the time was scoffed at by now established super league clubs but readliy taken up by them[hello leeds and bradford] only to be turned down for promotion even though they were pulling in 6k crowds and now 900[great help there with your system] dewbury packing out there ground at the time they were red hot only to be knocked back and now 700[worked wonders again] hunslet yet again another knock back

Guess what the common denominator is? the fans said whats the point we can't go up and the game lost them forever.

Just be honset and say we only want these teams in and let the rest die in 4 years and then the great game is reduced to 14 teams,great stuff

So Leigh won 2 games,sounds similar to catalans first years and several others

Take away the hope and the leagues die

Like I said show me which teams are growing?'"

He can't. The RFL has practically ended the championship as a meaningful competition. Don't worry though, Smokey reckons they've got a strategy, so I'm sure it'll all be fine. All those fans lost to the game are just taking a break, just you wait until this feeder club stuff takes off - I can hear the singing of 1000s of voices in glorious union now ... "I'm feeder club to [x] 'til I die, I'm feeder club to [x] 'til I die ...."

It must be a good idea, I mean the RFL wouldn't come up with something not thought through by intelligent people would it now?

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Quote: Chris Dalton "You're not. You're taking sides except when faced with a very difficult reality.

Not a judgment on Hull KR, just thoose playing politics with the "small" clubs being treated like poker chips and dismissing concerns as "for the good of the game" would all change their tune if the situations were reversed.

Forcing independent, ancient, decent, loyal clubs to become feeder clubs for old rivals is offensive.'"


Tbf, nobody can force an independent club to do something against its will or it has ceased to be independent.

I wouldn't follow an out and out feeder/reserve grade club, and I think that the extent of the current dual-reg system massively undermines the credibility of the Championship, as we have known it. I'm hoping it at very least is saving them a good deal of money to balance things a bit.

If SL wants feeder teams, it will have to pay for them - they won't (can't) do it as independent entities.

Greater fluidity or more stability, tbh thinking selfishly as a Hull KR fan, the main thing is knowing which it'll be so we can adapt accordingly. If we don't offer the Championship clubs anything more tangible than a wave goodbye, at least we should be honest about it. They'd well advised to take fuller control of their own affairs then, IMO.
We need to reconcile or have a divorce, it can't be put off much longer and needs to be settled one way or t'other.

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May be slated for this idea but Rugby league has been known to try new formats to competitions...

How about a combination of P+R and Licensing?

Promoted team is immune from relegation for a year mean if they finish bottom the team above is relegated. Allows the team to try and establish a foothold in the league.

In terms or promotion teams submit for a license much in the current system (from championship and French league). Which the most viable team on preset criteria decided at the beginning of the previous season is promoted. In theory the potential relegated team could apply too or maybe not (few bits need sorting out)

Probably many holes in this idea but it has just come off the top of my head!

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Quote: Hudds_25 "May be slated for this idea but Rugby league has been known to try new formats to competitions...

How about a combination of P+R and Licensing?

Promoted team is immune from relegation for a year mean if they finish bottom the team above is relegated. Allows the team to try and establish a foothold in the league.

In terms or promotion teams submit for a license much in the current system (from championship and French league). Which the most viable team on preset criteria decided at the beginning of the previous season is promoted. In theory the potential relegated team could apply too or maybe not (few bits need sorting out)

Probably many holes in this idea but it has just come off the top of my head!'"


That is kind of what I was saying earlier. The clubs that make the standard can get a licence and are exempt from relegation. The rest play on a year by year basis. This would allow a team to get promoted and stake their claim for a licence. Which is a lot better than a team trying to prove they can play in Super League without being able to play in Super League. This could be applied to all levels of the sport.

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