It's gone down the inevitable route that if you don't like a player and he happens to be black then it's because he's black tosh. Bailey is sly, niggly player that get's into opposition players when winning a penalty, into opposition fans when winning a game. There are lots of players that have been known to put a sly dig in here and there but it's his all round general manner that he goes about his business that i and many people don't like. I would level many the same critisisms at cockayne nobody suggest's it's his colour as the reason people dislike him. The only people displaying any prejudice in this argument are the people that brought up colour in the first place.

Your assumption that I automatically forgive players of my team for misconduct, foul play and thuggery on the field says more about you than it does about me, I'm afraid. Bridge didn't get the ban he deserved, and as I've said elsewhere, I didn't see the Westwood incident so I'm not fit to comment on it, however, if the descriptions from Leeds fans on the matter are accurate, then he should have been given a ban as well.



I believe it is, yes. Notice I'm not calling Bailey a thug, the dirtiest player ever, etc, I merely dislike him.



If I am, and display prejudices freely, then every single person I know and speak to in person is a coward for not challenging me on it. When forming my opinion of someone, the colour of their skin isn't even the last thing that matters to me, it simply isn't a consideration at all. People's characters are displayed in how they behave, not in how they appear.



The issues you raised was a long and rambling, unintelligent diatribe that tried to justify your view that everybody is a racist. You are Agent Provocateur, reincarnate, and I claim my £5.



How droll.



We shall agree to disagree then, however, if you go through life branding everybody you meet a racist because there happens to be one person they dislike who has a different skin tone to them, then fair play to you, I wish you every success in being universally seen as a judgemental troll.

What side of the Pennines is Burnley on?

Or for that matter rlNelsonrl?

It seems you close your eyes to racism on many levels.

I made no assumption, I merely asked a question. I sense a very defensive attitude in our discussion. Why?

You've said the two boys who play for your team deserved bans but I didn't ask that. I asked if you "disliked" them.

yes but why do you dislike him? It's because of his actions on the field. I am trying to demonstrate that his actions are, in reality, no worse than (and in most cases much better than) most of his contemporaries.

I often challenge people on their prejudices towards Bailey. I've been doing it for a while on Southstander. It's perhaps unfortunate you haven't come across anyone as enlightened as me to this point.

I do not hold the view that everybody is racist. I do hold the view that nearly all of us (myself included) are no doubt guilty, on some level, of deep rooted prejudices. These seem to manifest themselves in obvious fashion (to me anyway) in the way supporters reserve a highly disproportionate amount of bile for Ryan Bailey. That is not aimed specifically at you, by the way but generally speaking.

As for your final accusation, how insulting. I may have cadged the odd roll up from him but i do not share his personality disorder.

Noted but I don't "brand" anyone. I merely observe their actions and, if appropriate, comment upon them. Branding someone could be seen as generalising, at best and prejudice at worst. Thank you for branding me a judgmental troll, btw.

Finally, you'll note I haven't judged you or any of the others. I've merely passed comment and asked people to think about why they hate/dislike Bailey to such an extent.

At least you have thought about it in a deeper fashion than most.

I certainly dislike Bridge, who I think is very lucky he's not been called up to the beak in the past, he's been on the fine line of aggression vs. thuggery for quite a while and his elbow that got him a deserved (but lenient) ban was the RFL seeing that he had crossed that line.

Westwood, I don't dislike but his penalty-athon antics (more often than not he's simply guilty of holding players down for too long in the tackle) very much frustrate me.



Why only towards Bailey? Do JJB, BJB, etc not get singled out for this kind of criticism? I'm sure JJB has given away a few penalties in his time, as you rightly point out all players do on occasion, why do you think we don't have long discussion threads devoted to other players when they commit the cardinal sin of upsetting opposition fans? Why is it, in your view, that Bailey is the only player seemingly singled out for such treatment? Racism isn't the trigger as there are many other players who could equally come in for such stick, yet according to you it's only Bailey, so surely there's another trigger here that's involved. What do you think that is?



I don't disagree with you that we all have prejudices. It's human nature. What interests me is how people act on those prejudices, or react to having them challenged. It also must be stated that prejudice is not confined to holding predetermined beliefs based on the colour of skin, you could for example hold a prejudice that someone who finds himself utterly incapable of defending a players' actions on the field who then goes on to call other people racists is merely a troll. And I'll freely admit that that is currently my predetermined view of you.



Well you certainly share his exact views on this matter, that's for sure.



Apart from saying that the only reason they dislike (to varying levels of strength) Bailey is because of deep rooted prejudices / racism.



You're very welcome

As a general point though when people say things like " I have loads of black friends" and try and justify why they are not racist tend to do that for a reason. I have no doubt people dislike bailey for the colour of his skin but don't think it's the majority

Never said he was. And my opinion is generally he is a pantomime villain. But it would be ignorant to think no one hates him because he is black

One of the primary reasons people feel the need to point out Ryan Bailey's shortcomings is to provide a counterpoint to the drooling and unjustified adulation that is heaped upon him by some Leeds fans; particularly this cult of persistently labelling him TMFMISL, which to everyone outside a few goobers on the Leeds board, is puerile nonsense.

As I said earlier in the thread, before the loonies played the race card, he's a player with many good attributes but a poor attitude - his poor attitude is typified by the cheap shots, niggles and ref-baiting antics he regularly displays, together with his habit of back-pedalling rapidly when someone retaliates.

Once again - players cannot go around putting their hands on the officials; the penalty is appropriate, particularly given his behaviour immediately afterwards.

I never said you have, because you're unable to. What you have done instead is to state that the massive unpopularity Bailey suffers from is down to the colour of his skin. It either is or it isn't. If all you're saying is that in [isome[/i cases that's what it is, then fair enough, I've no doubt that there will be some people who do indeed dislike him purely on racial grounds, but I think where you and I differ is on our belief of how prevelent that particular circumstance is. I believe it to be in the minority, you appear to believe it in the majority.



Ironically I believe a 3 game ban for what he did to be OTT 3.54541015625:10