All complete lies. All of it. Even the part about people saying we're one of the biggest clubs in the game. No one in any messageboard is arguing that at all.

You complete liar.

Been on the beer again Chris?

still no-one can explain why 4 points were deducted and not 6.

it's not a case of 'hating' Crusaders - good luck to any venture that will expand the game - lovers of the game will want teams from wherever bringing something positive to the game whether it be from Wales,Widnes or Whitehaven and i'm not blaming Wrexham for this debarcle,the damage has been done long before it reached the north,though the Wrexham experience hasn't ben exactly smooth has it ? - The RFL allowed the franchise to a very 'dodgy' set-up with,apparently some very dodgy business characters at the helm - SOC had done enough IMO to warrant that 14th place on the other hand.
Widnes are a pretty 'big' club,read your history books ! though there is no evidence to say they would have done any better or worse than any other club over the past couple of years but the set-up IS in place and only an idiot would see that the infrastructure ie youth policy,facilities etc is far superior to that of the Crusaders (and probably other SL clubs) so they did warrant the 14th place.That's not being anti-welsh,just practical & realistic.



well said mate,got it in a nutshell - just ask Tony Duggan & friends what they think of the debarcle !

The penalty for the offence was a deduction of upto 6 points.

Not sure what you want explaining, no other decisions get explained, why would this one?

This thread is so full of fail it's unreal. When did it become cool to be a "troll"

Crusaders haven't done anything for the game? I wonder what sky would do, if the RFL wasn't so keen on expansion into different area's. Rugby League is the fastest growing sport in Wales. Over 250 schools have started playing league since the inception of the Crusaders. There are now two teams in Wales that can compete with the rest of their leagues. We have an international team that is not only playing well, but growing incredibly quickly, something that in future years should provide a very good opposition to the english to help you improve. Are Wales not going to be hosting the 2013 Rugby world cup? I thought the crusaders didn't do anything. Well then why is it that Welsh rugby league is growing for the first time since before union went pro?

Oh and starbug, it's not the amount of games that the welsh boys have played for the crusaders, but more around the fact that they had a chance to play league. The following players would not be playing rugby league right now if it was not for the Celtic Crusaders

Lloyd White (union player)
Ben Flower (union player)
Gareth Thomas (union player)
Gil Dudson (union player)
Elliot Kear * not sure
Christiaan Roets (union)

They might not be playing regularly for the saders, but none of them would even be in the game if it was not for them.

You flat cap northerns(or should i call you trolls) are so bitter about a "historic" team in Widnes not being admitted, that you are willing to rag on the crusaders at any oportunity. Widnes were weeks out of admin. There is no knowing what Widnes would of become had they entered superleague. I think personally, being left out of the licences the first time around was the best thing the RL could do for Widnes. They have a supurb stadium, and are chomping at the bit to gain entry into superleague. They have sorted all of their problems off the field, and will be a competative team in superleague.

Oh yeah, It's funny that any mention of the Crusaders and Widnes are mentioned immediatly after. Get over yourselves. Anyway, keep fighting teh good fight. Rugby league would still be in the same place it was 20 years ago, and 20 years into the future if not for expansion.

The expansionist nutters have been rather quiet on trying to justify why the RL have only given Crusaders a four point deduction when Keighley and Whitehaven (Plus others I can't think of) got 9. Obviousley it can't be favouring Crusaders can it, as the RL have never done that, as we keep being told. Maybe we should provide some evidence.

-4 is smaller than -9. Is that enough evidence? Or maybe you will try to say that in fact -4 in Welsh is the same as -6 in english, so there is no favouratism being shown by he RL.

What's that old saying about lies, damn lies and statistics ?

Of the 17 who played against France only 5 are directly attributable to Crusaders, the rest being from other clubs or having been professional RL players long before Crusaders were formed.

This is just another example of the favourtism shown to Cru-Cats and Quinns and therein lies the problem.

Its not that RL fans hate these clubs it is this favoritism shown to them that causes the anger and backlash we see on these forums.

There are numerous other examples of this, here is just one of them- the alledged £700k Cru owe the RFL, where was this for other teams that went into admin or are struggling with debt/going to the wall?

The solution to all of this would be for the RFL to state that the expansionst clubs will be retained whilst the SL franchise is in place even it means they are accorded a different set of rules.

Everyone would know where they stand, there would be none of the mistrust of the RFL and its underhanded ways, but true to RFL form they have not got the wisdom or the bottle to do this.

Apart from Steve O'Connor in a recent newspaper article

I thought the standard was three wins, I've no idea why it was four and not six. To be honest, I don't really care. I'd be astounded if they made the play-offs again, even if they were not handicapped at the start of the year.

What a load of crap

Expansion is one thing, growth is quite another. I'd rather have meaningful growth, in whatever form and whatever area, than meaningless expansion as a 'sticking flags on a map' exercise.

Despite all of this much vaunted 'expansion', according to Sport England the RL participation figures are falling. So, we're apparently 'expanding' while having less people playing the game. Wonderful.

I’m neither surprised nor bothered about how many points the Crusaders get. I just think it’s about time that the RFL dropped the pretence that they are treating everyone the same. I don’t hate the Crusaders, and never have, I welcome them. It looks certain that an extra two places were added to Super League because of their inclusion. Without them, it would probably have remained at 12 and, ironically, that would have given us one less heartland club in Super league.

I think where the problem lies, is in the RFL pretending that they were one of the best 14 clubs, when they couldn’t possibly have been. If they RFL had just been honest, and explained that the extra two places had been negotiated with Sky, in order to accommodate one heartland club and one expansion club and that the Celtic Crusaders were going to be fighting it out with other expansion clubs for that spot, there wouldn’t be so much animosity towards them.

At the end of the day, it’s not the fault of the Celtic Crusaders or their fans. It is the ham-fisted, incompetent and dishonest way the RFL operate – they just can’t be honest. That is where the blame should lie.




Widnes were not in a worse situation than the Crusaders. Unlike the Crusaders, Widnes did not plan a month ahead, with the connivance of the RFL, to go into administration. They did not have the benefit of being able to set up another trading company with the blessing of the RFL and have there players kept on contract and paid for by the RFL.

Widnes did not go into liquidation, this is an outright lie spread about these boards by tb. Once a sporting club enters administration, their playing staff contracts are no longer valid. The players have the option to either stay or leave. Some stayed and some left. Unlike the Crusaders, there was no new trading name and no RFL money to pay the players, while they went through the administration process.

Or maybe the Championship penalties are different from SL penalties, Crusaders couldnt have got a -9 penalty

Now if you had argued why they didnt get the maximum -6 then thats a different ball game