Personally, I'd rather see TO in Super League, because, as John Monie pointed out, you cannot pick a competent French national side with only one team in Super League. By 2012 Toulouse should have the 25 man squad ready, hopefully with no more than 5 Aussies or Kiwis.

Personally I would like to see TO replaced in the Championship by another French side, preferably Paris -- if not Paris then Lyon -- with competent part timers who should be drawn from the juniors being developed now at Les Catalans and Toulouse, and from the LER player pool.

Thankfully you have no influence whatsoever in RL

Although it would seem that some at the RFL are as barmy as you

It's a pity they can't pick from a pool of players that play in France - in a French competition. I guess the French RU will always put a stop to that.

If a SL team backed by News International's money couldnt cut it & failed to draw in the crowds, what makes you think that a championship team would be a success?

Yes I will be watching Leigh in Toulouse this weekend and then traveling down to Spain on business for a couple of days

I still think they should not be in our competition though

A waste of much needed funds in my opinion

Because the next business consortium that starts up a Super League club in Paris will have learned the lessons of past failure of Paris-St Germain (PSG), and will be working under totally different circumstances.

First, unlike PSG, the French players will be full time professionals, and will have no obligation to also play for an LER team in the south each week.

Second, unlike PSG, they will have been well prepared for their entry into Super League by three years in the championship

Third, most likely, they will be working in alliance with the Stade Francais rugby union club, sharing the SF stadium, and thereby minimising costs.

Fourth, unlike PSG, they will have the successful experience of Les Cataans and Toulouse to learn from.

Finally, they will be able to learn from the Stade Francais club's highly successful marketing department, and possibly be able to use that department directly.

jeez for someone thats supposed to be a pretend expansionist i still find myself agreeing with albert on many issues.

that is a real worry.

hes spot on about the probs at the last PSG club and why TO should be in SL.

with limited SL spot available for french club i wouldnt want to waste one on paris

toulose will give RL critical mass in france.

after that id like to see lyon and mille in SL eventually

Not now and no.
Nz do fine with only one club in the NRL, obviously the situation is different but it is possible - the French national side has the benefit of being drawn from one club with players who know each other well (as opposed to Saints and Leeds players who refuse to pass to each other).
TO should be in the Championship for 3-6 years at least. This gives a good progression path for Catalan academy players and will help develop the French player pool. Once TO can field a top Championship side with an LER squad as well, then they may be ready for SL - but at this point Catalans will have had to develop to having only 4 etrangers and TO will need a number of promising Championship players.

As for the next Championship club, I think the best option would be to do it properly and select a team like Pia or FCL who would not aim to progress to the SL. For this, though, those clubs would need to be able to extend their player pool to ~ 50 and field a team in both the LER and Championship.

For Paris or Mille they would need to make it to the LER top competition, stay there and make the (new) play-offs - i.e. top 5. THEN maybe they could try one of the Championship comps (it would be great if Championship 1 improved to the point where they could compete with a Foreign club - not holding my breath though) and then look to SL.

Personally I think that by the time Paris would be ready for SL it will probably be time for a French SL.

One of the things about France is that it's not a country of big cities - Mille (second city by some distance ahead of Lyon) has about the same population as Leeds or Sheffield.

If you look at the french rugby union's top 14 competition (rich and able to buy in players from all over the world), most of the teams are based in places which would be considered as small towns if they were in superleague - smaller than Bridgend or Cas.

The idea of a future Paris club using Stade Francais's home ground and thus minimising costs shows a lack of understanding of how French sport normally operates. It's a publically owned multi-use facility with a running track round it, with grass and trees at one end. Gateshead Stadium or Don Valley would be British equivalents. If they have a big game, they just play at one of the other available stadiums - including Charlety, where PSG started off superleague and recently the Stade de France. The mayor of Paris is a prominent supporter of the club and the city council provide a large amount of money and help.

Difference with the UK is that rather than paying rent to the council use the ground, local councils will typically be the main funder of local sports clubs. If you're going to pick spots on the map to place a team in France, the key factor is to find public money to pay for it - Cannes/Nice, Bordeaux, Nimes or any other large Southern City without a currently succesful rugby XV team would make just as much sense as Lyon.

yes and we saw how good the french national side was in the wC

This misses the point of the exercise completely. The reason TO is in the Championship is precisely to prepare them for SL. The RFL has no interest in promoting to the Championship a French club like Pia or FCL which has no chance of ever being a Super League club.

The RFL is not uninterested in Paris becoming a Championship and later a SL club. The only issue for the RFL and the FFRXIII is how to make such a club viable, from a financial, fan and player base foundation. Obviously Paris is the most prestigious and potentially lucrative name in France. That is the reason why M. Larrat is interested in developing the game there. (Whether he has the resources and acumen to make it work is another matter).

The French RU clubs exist from the largesse of wealthy individual sponsors, as well as the government and corporations. These clubs are playthings of their benefactors, just as Chelsea is for Mr Abramovich. The classic example is Toulouges , where Sonny Bill has gone. Rugby league cannot copy that model, because it is still too weak a sport. Such a model will only ever eventuate if and when rugby league ever becomes popular and fashionable among the well to do in France.

Until rugby league becomes a major French pastime -- bigger than handball -- it needs to have another business model. It will have to depend on a combination of public and corporate backing. This can only be big enough to sustain a club in Super League if the city has a large tax base and a large, prosperous business community. Rugby league is struggling financially in Perpignan (pop. 100,000) in competition with RU because there is only a small business community there, no large corporations such as exist in Toulouse. Les Catalans survives because it draws on the broader Catalan community in Languedoc-Roussillon --- and barely at that. This means that Paris, Toulouse, Lyon and Mille are the places the FFRXIII will be looking to develop, not large towns.

The need to build new fans support and junior recruitment structures also argues for larger cities. The small towns that RU are based in, are (except for Paris and Toulouse) entrenched in their sporting ways. There is no room for rugby league in small RU towns, just as there is no room for rugby union in Lezignan or Pia. Only large cities with significant, often unemployed, young immigrant populations can provide the new players to supply a new sport. And only the immigrant cities willl have the surplus fans to follow the boys to the games.

In your opinion. In my opinion TO is there as our feeder club, to act as a bridge for LER players to cross to get to SL. This will also have some benefit for the national side.


The same genius who picked Bobbie G. as the French coach? Ho hum.

Crap coach and a need to fill squad places with experienced players from the lower leagues. Currently a French squad could be selected purely from the Catalan side, with a gap for a fly-half and an injury question over a wing and centre - that can be resolved one way or another. No, not a world beating squad but not bad for 3 years' work.

I think it would be crazy to hope that France would be a proper top 4 national side without their playing any real matches against proper opposition. 2011 4N will be the time to get an idea of their status.