FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Super 8s
131 posts in 10 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3011
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2022Sep 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



They could up the ante a little by awarding 3 points for a win in the super 8s. This would at least prolong the illusion that 8th could become 4th.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: pie.warrior "all team have 23 games up until the split into the 8's. If you are in the super 8's vying to make the top 4 but are 10+ points behind the leaders then the team only have themselves to blame...not the system.
If they had performed better in at least 5 of the games they lost they would be closer to the top, if you start again from scratch for the super 8's you then devalue the previous 23 games and it wont be long before teams who have made the 8's with games to spare would rest players and coast......

Not every team in a 12 team league can win the title....there will always be dead games in a league system whatever that may be....it's just making sure you are at the pointed end of the stick when the split comes'"

The point is that this system exacerbates that.

It's all very well saying that team needed to perform better, but every game that team wins is a game another team loses. It's only a few specific run of results that can possibly produce a situation that keeps it competitive.

We have extended the length of the competition but for the majority of teams the majority of times the majority of those games are dead rubbers.

RankPostsTeam
Club Captain430No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 20159 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2017Feb 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "The point is that this system exacerbates that.

It's all very well saying that team needed to perform better, but every game that team wins is a game another team loses. It's only a few specific run of results that can possibly produce a situation that keeps it competitive.

We have extended the length of the competition but for the majority of teams the majority of times the majority of those games are dead rubbers.'"


It's not the majority of teams which have deadrubber games, the majority of games in the S8s mean something. The only games which are deadrubber games are the ones played between teams who can't mathematically make the top 4 (eg Widnes vs Wakefield this season) and even they still have pride and finishing position to play for. Games such as Hull vs Wakefield in the S8s are far from being dead rubber for one of the teams (had Wakefield won then Warrington would have been awarded the LLS a week earlier).

The teams who find themselves in the middle 8 need to concentrate for all of their games so they have no deadrubber games. Roughly 10% of all the games during the super 8s this year had less meaning, I don't think that's too bad

RankPostsTeam
Club Captain2418No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 20169 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2020Mar 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "

but every game that team wins is a game another team loses. '"


a014.gif icon_lol.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: bentleberry "It's not the majority of teams which have deadrubber games, the majority of games in the S8s mean something. The only games which are deadrubber games are the ones played between teams who can't mathematically make the top 4 (eg Widnes vs Wakefield this season) and even they still have pride and finishing position to play for. Games such as Hull vs Wakefield in the S8s are far from being dead rubber for one of the teams (had Wakefield won then Warrington would have been awarded the LLS a week earlier).

The teams who find themselves in the middle 8 need to concentrate for all of their games so they have no deadrubber games. Roughly 10% of all the games during the super 8s this year had less meaning, I don't think that's too bad'"

From the point of view if Wakefield and Widnes all their games were dead rubbers and as we went on Cas and then Les Catalans were realistically out of the race, pretty early too. We had 8 teams playing a round Robin so 4 of them could decide who played at home. The season ended with 20 points between 4th and 8th and 9pts between 4th and 5th.

RankPostsTeam
Moderator6051
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 201213 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: SmokeyTA "From the point of view if Wakefield and Widnes all their games were dead rubbers and as we went on Cas and then Les Catalans were realistically out of the race, pretty early too. We had 8 teams playing a round Robin so 4 of them could decide who played at home. The season ended with 20 points between 4th and 8th and 9pts between 4th and 5th.'"


Meanwhile in 'progressive school sports day land' where there are no losers and little consequence for performance and no ones feelings get hurt, everything is absolutely fine I think that the majority would soon tire of that particular type of dead rubber if they had to put up with it week in week out?

Of course you know this

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Uncle Rico "Meanwhile in 'progressive school sports day land' where there are no losers and little consequence for performance and no ones feelings get hurt, everything is absolutely fine I think that the majority would soon tire of that particular type of dead rubber if they had to put up with it week in week out?

Of course you know this'"
What on earth are you talking about?

RankPostsTeam
Moderator6051
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 201213 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: SmokeyTA "What on earth are you talking about?'"


I think you should ask yourself the same question from time to time it was you that stretched the thread Super 8's to relegation from Championship 1 and potential oblivion

FWIW it was trying to make some sense of your 'for every winner there is a loser' piece of wisdom/dead rubber argument so I will leave it there thanks on the understanding that my initial point was meant to reflect that I was pleased that Leigh had the opportunity of getting promoted after putting in a bit of effort over a number of years and also a fair minded post from a KR fan saying pretty much the same thing

RankPostsTeam
International Star2794
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 201311 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2023Jun 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



At the risk of (but who cares) repeating what I have touted over & over ....

There are too many games in a SL Season & not enough Internationals, therefore to alleviate this issue & avoid the potential of rewarding a season of mediocrity with a Grand Final, this should happen ....

Top 4 go straight to Semi-Finals, P1 v P4 & P2 v P3.
Winners to GF.

Middle 4 play in the Dead Rubber Cup P5 v P8 & P6 v P7
Winners play curtain raiser for GF in the Blue Peter Sticky Back Plastic Shield.

Bottom 4 Join Top 4 Championship for Q8's as now but with no MPG
P9 > P12 Qualify.

Overall, a reduction of games & create a space for an extra International & training camp.

RankPostsTeam
Club Captain2418No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 20169 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2020Mar 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quite amazing that they don't have any ' dead rubber ' games in the NRL

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Uncle Rico "I think you should ask yourself the same question from time to time it was you that stretched the thread Super 8's to relegation from Championship 1 and potential oblivion

FWIW it was trying to make some sense of your 'for every winner there is a loser' piece of wisdom/dead rubber argument so I will leave it there thanks on the understanding that my initial point was meant to reflect that I was pleased that Leigh had the opportunity of getting promoted after putting in a bit of effort over a number of years and also a fair minded post from a KR fan saying pretty much the same thing'"
I didn't make some philosophical argument regarding the nature of winning. It is a mathematical argument about the inherently rare set of results which can produce a competitive super 8s.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: GUBRATS "Quite amazing that they don't have any ' dead rubber ' games in the NRL'"

Did the NRL introduce a convoluted structure with competitive unfairness with the aim of minimizing dead rubbers?

The Super 8s are as they were described by an SL chairman earlier this year, a commercial disaster without any merits at all.

RankPostsTeam
Moderator2577No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: SmokeyTA "Did the NRL introduce a convoluted structure with competitive unfairness with the aim of minimizing dead rubbers?

The Super 8s are as they were described by an SL chairman earlier this year, a commercial disaster without any merits at all.'"


Of course a Super League chairman said that, he doesn't want to loose access to his precious old boys club that is SL.
Several years of franchising resulting in more and more "dead rubbers" year after year. How many season did Wakefield, Hull KR etc have nothing to play for after August ?

Are you really so arrogant that you think teams shouldn't have to justify their place in the elite league?

RankPostsTeam
Club Captain2418No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 20169 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2020Mar 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "competitive unfairness.'"


icon_stupid.gif

RankPostsTeam
Moderator6051
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 201213 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: SmokeyTA "I didn't make some philosophical argument regarding the nature of winning. It is a mathematical argument about the inherently rare set of results which can produce a competitive super 8s.'"


I'll apologise for giving you some credit that you didn't perhaps deserve then if that is the case and for those outside the top four last year please try and win more games next season as it might just make the whole season more interesting

131 posts in 10 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
131 posts in 10 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


2.943359375:10
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
2025 Squad Numbers
Hasbag
15
7m
Realistic targets for 2025
Faithful One
147
9m
Film game
Boss Hog
5860
22m
Planning for next season
J7P1
185
Recent
Pre Season - 2025
FC Callum
214
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
44s
How many games will we win
Wollo-Wollo-
54
50s
Realistic targets for 2025
Faithful One
147
52s
2025 Shirt
--[ WW ]--
27
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
546
1m
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
1m
Leeds away first up
FIL
51
1m
Ground Improvements
Trojan Horse
233
2m
Super League
FIL
25
2m
Planning for next season
J7P1
185
3m
Film game
Boss Hog
5860
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Hasbag
15
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M 1,876 80,15614,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R1
18:00
Toulouse
v
Widnes
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
       Championship 2025-R1
15:00
Bradford
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Doncaster
15:00
Oldham
v
York
15:00
Sheffield
v
Halifax
15:00
Barrow
v
Hunslet
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
       League One 2025-R1
15:00
Cornwall
v
Workington
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Crusaders
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
2025 Squad Numbers
Hasbag
15
7m
Realistic targets for 2025
Faithful One
147
9m
Film game
Boss Hog
5860
22m
Planning for next season
J7P1
185
Recent
Pre Season - 2025
FC Callum
214
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
44s
How many games will we win
Wollo-Wollo-
54
50s
Realistic targets for 2025
Faithful One
147
52s
2025 Shirt
--[ WW ]--
27
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
546
1m
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
1m
Leeds away first up
FIL
51
1m
Ground Improvements
Trojan Horse
233
2m
Super League
FIL
25
2m
Planning for next season
J7P1
185
3m
Film game
Boss Hog
5860
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Hasbag
15
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Trojan Horse
50
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!