A lot of nit-picking going on but the fact is that team had enough to win had they performed to their potential. No-one played poorly today, the only player that looked out of his depth was Whitehead and I don't hold it against him - on debut, and having not played for weeks. My nit-picks: Joel Tomkins doesn't look quite up to international speed, I'd have considered Hardaker at the back, Watkins' footwork seems a little off the pace in defence, and I hate wingers EVER leaving their wing and running in but not sure Hall had any other options. Other than that no complaints.

We're behind in a few simple areas for me, and it's all down to mindset.

- Line speed. Too slow off the mark too often, giving the opposition a clear 10 metre run at our line. When we got up hard and fast none of them could live with us, but then we always dropped a gear and let them back in.

- Winning the ruck. By that I mean winning the wrestle and slowing the ruck. Too often the tackler would release his man immediately, putting our defence on the back foot and allowing the opposition to get a roll on. Get 2, 3 men in the tackle and peel off one at a time, wins a few seconds. Dominate.

- Aggression. Several times today our chasers could have legally cleaned out Johnson after the kick - one incident with Lockers stands out, his timing was perfect for a massive hit and he stopped as though Johnson is his best mate. The Aussies, Kiwis and Samoans don't back off and neither should we. We need that aggressive streak - that ruthless edge. We want that worry in the back of their minds.

- Intensity. Watch the Aussie and Kiwi players as they are tackled. They battle for every inch and put everything into winning the ground and finding their feet. Our players seem to accept the tackle and let the tacklers dominate. It's that intensity, that desire to win every moment that we lack, and that also applies directly to line speed and physical domination.

And finally, let's not forget the Kiwis are the best international team right now. Their defence was outstanding, especially the scramble. Their big runners are almost impossible to contain and their offload game is superb. We did well to play within ourselves and look the better side for long spells, and we would have won if our kicking rate had been better.

Good summary.

we've just played an excellent kiwi team, who on current form are the world's best, away from home and matched them in most departments. that was one of the most even games i have seen and really would have ended in a draw, had we taken the kick at goal in the last minute (turned it down for obvious reasons). it wasn't so long ago that games like this were over by half time. he deserves a chance to finish what he has started with a very promising group of players.

by the way this has been a very high quality tournament, possibly the most competitive i have ever seen

To be fair. In this tournament. We lost to Australia thanks to a video ref, only losing by 4 on their home soil. We lost to NZ on their home soil thanks to the uprights.

Hardly the requirement to sack a coach I'd have thought.

We are playing the best rugby we've played and competing more so then any time in the last 20 years

We have a young team that are going to grow and get better together and I think the same for Mcnamara, I absolutely believe this team will win a major tournament

I don't see how any one can complain about his team selection
He picked the best players we have and they played really well together, we were a couple of % away from winning

Had we had Jack Reed to replace the only person who was a passenger on the pitch (Watkins) and Roby at interchange hooker perhaps we would have done it

Without reading the whole thread, since I'm reading on my phone -

Yet again, we've come 3rd in a 3 horse race.

Get rid. Give Waney a shout.

THIS!!!

People saying we've played well this tournament so McNamara should be given anther contract, it's his fourth year in the job and we've beaten NZ/OZ once in 7 attempts. 12 months ago peopl were saying we were seconds away from the WC final. Now we're
A finger nail and a goal post from winning all 3 games. We've come up short again. No ifs, no buts. We need to find someone who can take us through that last barrier.

Still we gave the Aussies a run for their money. To nearly beat a team with the likes of Thurston and Gallen and Lewis in is a real achievement......



Well we would have nearly beaten a team with those players in if they had actually played.......

Ok so it was the worst Australian RL team i can remember ......

But we are getting closer

If the VR...

If we had not dropped the ball....

if we had got that conversion....

If Hall had not knocked on.....

But we only lost the games by a couple of points.....

What were the excuses last year....

the year before that.....

Lewis??? what difference would he make to their problem area - the front row.

Its laughable how much hate McNamara gets, just like his predecessors. Its not as though he chose not to pick Sam Burgess or Roby. Its not his fault he's got Matt Smith and not Andrew Johns, or that SL players take time to tighten up their game against NRL opponents.

I'm not happy with losing, but compared to previous competitions down under England have improved out of sight. There were no 'excuses' for getting absolutely hammered on previous tours - we were just nowhere near good enough. This England team would hammer Tony Smith's world cup side and probably any GB team since Hanley and Schofield were around.

We're still a bit off the pace, but unlike previous years its clear we're only a few players off being able to be confident of a win vs aus/NZ - namely a halfback and second row. That's probably three players we need to find, unlike in the past when it was closer to 12 out of 17 not good enough.

IMO the only things McNamara should learn from are making sure England has a warm-up game (which might not entirely be under his control) and generally being more adventurous with both tactics and team selection. Oh, and ignoring trolls who hark back to how he was at Bradford, as if it matters at all today.

Interesting comment. Wigan are thugs apparently, but no one could back that up when I started a post about this subject. Wigan are no more thugs than any other team, certainly not Castleford. Carney and Hauraki aren't exactly angels for instance.

I really like what Powell has done at Cas this year, coach of the year by a mile. Wane has far more to his coaching than people give him credit for. Personally I'd like him to stay concentrating just on Wigan. SM has come within millimetres of wins against 2 teams full of players from the supposedly far superior NRL. Leave him to build this team. We need more games per year though.

McNamara has proved he can coach. We have played well at top level and beat Australia (assuming we'd have kicked the goal, but were cheated out of it. We played well against NZ and could just as easily have won as lost. Had the 2 kicks at goal gone IN off the post instead of out ...

We fell marginally short, and that was all. We competed at the same level, and nobody is satisfied with losing, but we can take great pride in the performances, and (trolls ignored) McNamara has coached us to a level where we are now genuinely competitive with Australia and New Zealand. He and we have made great strides. It's a pity we are out, but the one additional ingredient you need in an even contest - the rub of the green - we just haven't seemed to get.

I have to laugh at the predictable "worst Aus team EVA" cretins. These are the same people that not too long ago were telling us Aus could pick 5 Test squads all of which would beat England. Well, clearly they can't. And without the loss of Sam Burgess and Roby, even given our dearth of world class half-backs (hadly McNamara's fault) we would I am sure have tipped the balance.

It's another loss Jim,but not as we have known it.

Exactly. I've twice watched GB in Brisbane get absolutely tonked by Australia, and the gap between those GB teams and the current England one is as big as it was between Aus and GB back then. England looks like a team now and has only a few areas it could improve a lot, as well as overall error-rate, line speed and confidence.

Looking forward to the new and improved England taking that final step and winning games which really count against Australia and New Zealand when it really counts real soon. Like within the next few years rather than the next few decades!

Lets just quickly round up this latest tournament with a few facts from a Moonie perspective.

1. England are much improved.
2. England are getting there.
3. The 2014 Four Nations was a huge success for England.
4. England would beaten Australia were they not cheated out of it.
5. Non-neutral Aussie referees are cheats.
6. Non-neutral English referees are much better.
7. Anyone who believes this Australian squad is the worst is a cretin.
8. The gap between England and Australia is much reduced.
9. With S. Burgess and Roby England would be unbeatable.
10. No, really.

I remember the gap being really tiny between GB and Australia's second worst ever "can't be @rsed's" in 2003. I also recall GB getting walloped a year later 44-4 when their "could be @rsed's" gave us a gentle reminder that our national side was still some way behind and Sadler's best player in the world most definitely wasn't Andy Farrell.

It is to be hoped that we've learned a few lessons in this tournament and do not take the next series for granted, otherwise the scoreline will not be quite so pretty the next time around.

As one who has attended sundry drubbings against Australia which would include the 52-4 and 36-14 debacles in Melbourne, the 44-4, 46-16, 30-8 debacles in Leeds, the 33-10 debacle in Brisbane, the 32-4 debacle in Wellington, etc, etc, please forgive me for not adopting the current glass overflowing best team but we were cheated out if it Moonie bollox because I've heard it all before.

You really are one miserable git!