FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Is the Championship a sustainable competition? |
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| Quote: GUBRATS "NO , you've missed my point , NO current teams would re submit , no Leeds , no Wigan , no Saints , no Warrington , no Hull
East and west Yorkshire , one playing out of Elland Rd , Headingley , new Cas stadium , Huddersfield , one playing out of KC , Sheffield , Doncaster
East and west Lancashire
All current teams , ALL current teams in the 2 nd tier playing in 2/3 regional competitions part time
That is proper franchising/licencing'"
Forgive my ignorance, but I seem to be missing the point again.
Both the NRL and the NFL operate a franchising system that contains members of former leagues, (the colts for example in the NFL). They also are teams found in cities rather than a generic region, look at the amount of Sydney teams in the NRL.
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| Quote: Barrie's Glass Eye "Forgive my ignorance, but I seem to be missing the point again.
Both the NRL and the NFL operate a franchising system that contains members of former leagues, (the colts for example in the NFL). They also are teams found in cities rather than a generic region, look at the amount of Sydney teams in the NRL.'"
Look at the ' Super Rugby ' system for true franchising and expansion
So all supporters then follow their choice ( usually their regional franchisee ) and their original local team as well if they want
That'd work don't you think ?
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| Super Rugby with the Melbourne Rebels?
We all know how much Starbug loves a false dichotomy and a straw man, i dread to think how excited he is about offering the false choice between P+R or a system that nobody suggested and doesnt exist.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Super Rugby with the Melbourne Rebels?
We all know how much Starbug loves a false dichotomy and a straw man, i dread to think how excited he is about offering the false choice between P+R or a system that nobody suggested and doesnt exist.'"
Bog off , nobodys interested
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| Quote: GUBRATS "Bog off , nobodys interested'"
Well, they are queuing around the block to read you being wrong about how competitions work!
You could just admit, that even in the arbitrarily narrow parameters you set, you were wrong.
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| If you have the greatest product ever made but don't know how to advertise, market or sell it, then business may not be that good unless you charge a fortune to the few people "in the know" for the product.
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| Quote: Leaguefan "If you have the greatest product ever made but don't know how to advertise, market or sell it, then business may not be that good unless you charge a fortune to the few people "in the know" for the product.'"
So which 2 nd tier Aussie team sells 6,000 + season tickets to fans that attend every game ?
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| what?
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| I think in order to promote a sustainable game as a whole, we need a main league with 12 teams to start off with (NRL like) with no promotion/relegation. All full time, with catchment areas. So for example:
Leeds recruits players from Leeds.
Wigan from Wigan.
Castleford from Castleford etc.
Introduce one Cumbria team, they have first refusal on players from Cumbria. Catalan have first refusal on French players etc. Clubs have a salary cap, a TV deal (big as it will be the premier competition). All the main stars of RL in this country will be in this comp.
Other clubs outside this 12 will compete in the Champ. Their choice to be FT or PT. Must run a sustainable business model (spend 50-60% of income). Smaller TV deal like the Intrust Cup in Aus but all clubs in this league get a share. However any of these teams can apply for SL as an expansion to that league (like Gold Coast Titans, Melbourne Storm etc).
I know some clubs will have issues with this in the Champ (your Halifaxs, Fevs, Sheffs, etc) however realistically none of these will be able to compete in SL as the game is at the moment. The above will allow teams to get finances in order as teams won't overspend chasing a pipeline dream (promotion) and allows them to build off the field in order to apply for a franchise.
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| What I've observed is that most fans are very supportive of franchising... until their team doesn't have one...
Wholesale change of the structure of RL might work (if there was enough cash sloshing around), but at the moment it's foundations are built on long-standing affiliations to "home" clubs that go back many years (40+ in my case). A real catch-22 situation in many ways?
The Championship has certainly got more competitive over the last few years, and the entertainment can be very good. IMO last season saw a dip in entertainment value, possibly because coaches are following more "scientific" methods to win games rather than entertain.
Mostly, fans want their team to win, but not far behind, they want them to do it with some style. Defensive lapses can be excused if they excel with ball in hand.
To answer the op, of course the Championship is sustainable, and there should be a viable and achievable route through to SL, but the RFL need to work much harder to calibrate funding correctly across the board. Btw, afaik, Championship clubs got £0 from the Premier Sports games (previous seasons) and £0 from the middle-8's in terms of TV money.
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| Quote: HXSparky "What I've observed is that most fans are very supportive of franchising... until their team doesn't have one...'"
Agreed. As a fan I would be gutted if Bradford didn't get a franchise. But if it was better for the game in general then teams would unfortunately have to accept that they wouldn't get a franchise. Especially the Cumbria clubs. One strong SL Cumbria side is surely better competitivley and financially than 3 part-time teams who won't win anything?
Quote: HXSparky "Wholesale change of the structure of RL might work (if there was enough cash sloshing around), but at the moment it's foundations are built on long-standing affiliations to "home" clubs that go back many years (40+ in my case). A real catch-22 situation in many ways?'"
Again, I would agree. I'd personally argue that we'd need to get one 'big' club in a high catchment area. If that meant Wakefield and Cas merging to form an SL club with Fev being the designated Champ team. Or Fev merging with Cas or Wakey. It would mean teams losing identity and this notion of 'history' but it didn't do the NRL any harm so maybe we need this to happen?
Quote: HXSparky "The Championship has certainly got more competitive over the last few years, and the entertainment can be very good. IMO last season saw a dip in entertainment value, possibly because coaches are following more "scientific" methods to win games rather than entertain.'"
I love the Championship! Watched it on TV when it was on Thursdays! And since being relegated I have seen nothing but improvement in lower league teams. Having a strong Leigh and Bradford in 2015 was class. However I would like to see the likes of Fax, Batley etc being able to compete with the SL clubs. It seemed that only Leigh (2015 and 2016) and Bradford (2015) could do that.
Quote: HXSparky "To answer the op, of course the Championship is sustainable, and there should be a viable and achievable route through to SL, but the RFL need to work much harder to calibrate funding correctly across the board.'"
It's not sustainable really. There's like 2-3 teams there who can realistically do anything. The crowds are poor unless you count good away followings from Leigh and Bradford. If funding were to be increased and distributed well over the Championship it could be a great competition indeed!
Quote: HXSparky "Btw, afaik, Championship clubs got £0 from the Premier Sports games (previous seasons) and £0 from the middle-8's in terms of TV money.'"
That's disgusting if true. Top 4 should get on par TV money with the bottom 4 SL clubs. Daft thing is, if Champ teams recieved money and were shown on TV then the broadcaster would be showing some good old fashioned RL, also more open at times than SL games.
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| Quote: Bulls Boy 2011 "Agreed. As a fan I would be gutted if Bradford didn't get a franchise. But if it was better for the game in general then teams would unfortunately have to accept that they wouldn't get a franchise. Especially the Cumbria clubs. One strong SL Cumbria side is surely better competitivley and financially than 3 part-time teams who won't win anything?'"
' Teams ' ? , as in Bradford Bulls and their fans
So you and the other Bradford fans would be happy to be frozen out of SL ? , what crowds would you ( will you ) be drawing to Odsal in that situation ?
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| Ah the old merger bollox rears its ugly and unlikely head again.
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| Quote: GUBRATS "' Teams ' ? , as in Bradford Bulls and their fans
So you and the other Bradford fans would be happy to be frozen out of SL ? , what crowds would you ( will you ) be drawing to Odsal in that situation ?'"
Teams as in anyone who didn't get a franchise/license to play in the new SL.
I never said I would be happy. I'm a more than confident that should that situation arise, Bradford would get a franchise. I was using us as an example. And in that situation (Bradford not getting a franchise to be in SL) then we would be one of the Champ clubs, having to build off the field in order to apply for a franchise in the future (ala NRL, Melbourne, Gold Coast).
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| Quote: Willzay "Ah the old merger bollox rears its ugly and unlikely head again.'"
Out of curiosity why do you think it's bollox?
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