Yes goodnight, it was clearly passed your bedtime about 4 hours ago.

Have the likes of Lee Mossop, Liam Farrell, Gareth Hock etc really proved with their performances this season that they're better than Morley & Peacock? If Morley & Peacock are still 2 of the top 4 English props then surely they should play shouldn't they?

As for JJB - I thought he did pretty well this series, added some speed and dynamism to our backrow in which Heighington and Ellis were largely disappointing.

As for Brough - it amazes me. Year on year we plead with the selectors to pick players in form. Danny Brough was not in form so he wasn't picked. Where's the drama?

As for the argument that players who have lost shouldn't play again - embarrassing. When Australia lost in 2005 they didn't dump all the players, when they lost in 2008 & 2010 they didnt dump Slater, Lockyer, Thurston, Smith & Inglis whilst saying "well they lost, they've had their chance we're going to pick Ben Cross instead. After all he's done ok for Newcastle and played SOO."
It's just stupid. You pick the best 17 regardless of age and whilst taking into account current form. The best English 17 still contains Peacock & Morley and does not currently contain Gareth Hock.

The suggestion is that going forward we should now be looking beyond certain players and have an eye on 2013.

yes break the hegemony of the 'leeds circle' its a bit like radio one trying to hang on to dave lee travis ,mike read etc

Have an eye on - fine. But until they prove in SL that they are better than the current incumbents then they shouldn't be shoved straight in simply because they've "not lost to Australia before".


The Leeds circle of who?
Reed & Hall?
Sinfield & Chase?
Peacock & Graham?

As someone who has watched at least Watkins and Hardacre most weeks, if you think they are anywhere near ready for international RL you really need to give your head a shake, one of them maybe, but both of them out there instead of Yeaman and Briscoe? against Inglis? really?

Burgess would be in there anyway if he wasnt injured, im struggling to see what Hock has done in the last 2 years other than prove he is a bigger grub than Thurston and Danny Brough has got to 28 as the epitome of a flat-track bully, Brough has been found wanting at every challenge he has been given, yes he looks good when the forwards give him a great platform, but there is a reason Brough couldnt get a gig at a side challenging and there is a reason his game went to pot towards the end of the year. When the going gets tough, Brough disappears.

You really should learn to spell like an adult before you go accusing others of being juvenile.

I agree we need to clear out the old if we want to move forward, Morely and Peacock have been great and will be a big loss but its time to look to the future bring in the next set of players, if the replacements fail then what have we lost.

All the others should be considered on merit going into the next series.

You'll never beat the club colours boys on here Clan, they will defend at all costs.

i have read most the posts on hear and i have got to say i agree with them i would not have chase anywhere near my England team and it has got nothing to do with him been a N Zealander he is crap and wile you are at it get a decent coach but were from i don't know but something has to be done

Correct. Waste of time trying really.

Think we can all see that Peacock and Morley are falling short of the standards they have set in the past. However untill there are other players who can come in and take up their roll then they will still get picked. When Burgess finally gets himself fit he will be one of the first names on the sheet and rightly so.
Hock shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt. If Brough had stayed fit and remained in form he would have been picked, but Australia still wouldn't have let him kick.
If we were to throw Watkins and Hardaker in now the result would be a shambles, but both have great potential.
Hopefully Lomax and Gaskell can continue to develop a partnership at Saints this year, but once more it would be too much too soon to throw them in now.
Think it's a shame Burrow was injured for the series, he was electric back end of the year and could have added that spark off the bench we were lacking.

Along with peacock, briscoe and yeaman have been shocking, for a winger briscoe has no pase and he is not strong enough. McGilvary is the player who should be infront of him.

England's biggest problem was the total lack of impact off the bench. No point of Widdop been there, get Robinson off the bench to replace roby. Carvel should stay, westwood and burgess when he is fit.

Widdop should start, very dissappointed that he didnt get more of a chance. On the subject of Peacock and Morley both should now retire. They have been great players but their international career has come to an end. Not a criticism of their performance this series but we need to build for the furture now and particularly the 2013 World Cup.

I agree Widdop should start but coming off the bench is pointless