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Quote: Kosh "Charming. Your empathy is an example to us all.

It's not a 'guilt trip post'. I'm just a little fed up with frothing rants about how the RFL should have immediately moved to not only bury the Bulls but preferably dance all over their grave as well, with little or no consideration for the blameless human beings working there.

And I haven't forgotten that creditors are also suffering, but as far as I'm aware none of the creditors are going to go out of business or lay off staff as a result. Neither will forcing the Bulls out of existence help those creditors in any way.

Finally - what makes you think that punishing people who had nothing at all to do with running the club into the ground will in any way deter future boards/chairmen from doing something similar? The folk responsible for this debacle have walked away scot free.'"


You are having a go at the wrong people Kosh.
The people that you should be angry with are the folk that have badly overspent at Bradford.
You make comment that none of the Bulls suppliers have laid off staff because of the Bulls difficulties, but the level of debt that they have, cannot fail to damage their suppliers and it is very likely that some will suffer severe hardship as a result of this.

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So apparently it's down to two bidders: Omar Khan and Bradford Park Avenue. Is history about to go full circle and the Great Split of 1907 be healed?

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



So the question is

What exactly does a club need to do , to get its licence revoked ?

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Quote: Starbug "So the question is

What exactly does a club need to do , to get its licence revoked ?'"

Change it's name to Salford or Castleford ?

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Quote: GSF "Change it's name to Salford or Castleford ?'"


You're probably right.
The league is made up of "haves" and "have nots" and even when the haves have nothing the still dont become have nots, which does make you wonder why all the clubs have to go through the charade of franchise applications icon_surprised.gifops:

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[i:10za56ci]Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One[/i:10za56ci]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6505.jpg

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Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "No one is dancing over the Bulls grave and no one wants to see them go out of business but they shouldn't have the RFL pay them their wages.'"

The latter would pretty much ensure the former. Which was my point.

Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "Did the Football League or the FA pay Portsmouth players wages or Luton's? Did the SPL or SFA pay Rangers players wages?'"

I have zero interest in what happens in Soccer and fail to see the relevance TBH. I'd also point out that for a Soccer player, being out of work for a few months would hardly trigger a financial crisis.

Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "Did the RFL pay Wakefied, Rochadle and Crusaders wages? The answer is no. They were left to get themselves out of a financial mess as it was their own doing.'"

The RFL did, however, assist the Crusaders players in finding new employment.

I'm also unconvinced by the argument that just because something was done one way once, it should always be done that way. Surely the idea is to get better at handling these situations?

Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "And before you start with the Bradford to big to fail rubbish, they are not and life would go on.'"

I've never said anything of the sort and neither do I believe it. If Bradford [ido[/i fail, despite all efforts being made to avoid that happening, then so be it. I simply feel that all efforts [ishould[/i be made - whatever the club involved.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "You are having a go at the wrong people Kosh.
The people that you should be angry with are the folk that have badly overspent at Bradford.
You make comment that none of the Bulls suppliers have laid off staff because of the Bulls difficulties, but the level of debt that they have, cannot fail to damage their suppliers and it is very likely that some will suffer severe hardship as a result of this.'"

It's perfectly possible for me to be angry at several different people at the same time. Quite common, even. icon_smile.gif

I'll say this again - what's the point of punishing folk who had nothing to do with the Bulls current situation when the folk responsible are no longer there? It's not even a deterrent.

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Quote: Kosh "It's perfectly possible for me to be angry at several different people at the same time. Quite common, even.
I dont think that it is a case of punishing innocent people.
When any business fails, ordinary, hard working people suffer and nobody wants to see people lose their livlihoods, but, what you appear to be saying is, because it was someone else's fault, we should shrug our shoulders and carry on.
The RFL statement at the begining of the current franchise system reitterated it's position, whereby it said they would revoke the licence of any failing club.
If they do not wish to carry out this action, then they should not make an empty threat.
Does the current situation set a precident for ANY other failing cluib (and this has to include the likes of Salford, Cas, Widnes, Wakefield, Hull KR etc) , or is this just a case of protecting one of the games bigger clubs, one with an iconic northern stadium.
We haven't even begun to mention the franchise system or promotion and relegation and these issues are inexorably linked, never mind the fact that at some point in the relatively near future SL numbers may well be cut and it is likely that someone will lose their place at the top table, whilst Bradford remain.
Although I have much sympathy for Bradfords plight and especially for their supporters, who are certainly innocent victims in all of this, it remains the case, that Rugby League is a game without principles and whilst it is commendable that one team is saved but, ultimately this will be at the expense of someone else.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I dont think that it is a case of punishing innocent people.

The RFL statement at the begining of the current franchise system reitterated it's position, whereby it said they would revoke the licence of any failing club.
If they do not wish to carry out this action, then they should not make an empty threat.
'"


Actually they said they COULD revoke the license. Not WOULD. and thats the way the rules are worded too. They now allow the sanction of removing the license but it isnt mandatory. Subtle but important distinction.

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Also, define "failing club" - if it was simply "going into administration" (even if it's because you collected income tax from your employees and VAT from your customers then treating the money as your own and spending it, so when HMRC asked for its money there was none there) there'd be no need for a separate punishment. In the form of a points deduction for going into administration ...

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Quote: tb "Also, define "failing club" - if it was simply "going into administration" (even if it's because you collected income tax from your employees and VAT from your customers then treating the money as your own and spending it, so when HMRC asked for its money there was none there) there'd be no need for a separate punishment. In the form of a points deduction for going into administration ...'"



I would instantly ask the club why they are underselling their product. I would ask the same question of the Huddersfield Club also. Where is charging £80 for a season ticket going to lead to? Especially when it becomes the norm. How can a SL club ever go back to £180 after that? I would expect a Championship club to do this with the knowledge that IF they ever got a license they could justifyably ramp up the prices. What would happen to Hudderfield's fan base if they started charging proper prices for their product?

I'm not saying that this means that clubs are failing. I'm not saying that Salford's constant bagging of their own attendances isn't a cry for help. I think people need to understand that SL licensing doesn't guarantee successful clubs - it is merely a choice of the best 14 clubs at that the time of granting it. That said, I think the RFL will have a job on selling the virtues of a license application process the next time round.

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Quote: mat "Actually they said they COULD revoke the license. Not WOULD. and thats the way the rules are worded too. They now allow the sanction of removing the license but it isnt mandatory. Subtle but important distinction.'"


You are correct, the word is "could". However the point remains, under what circumstances would they actually revoke a license ?
It is difficult to imagine haw a club could fail to a greater extent in terms of financial viability !

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[i:10za56ci]Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One[/i:10za56ci]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6505.jpg

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I dont think that it is a case of punishing innocent people.
When any business fails, ordinary, hard working people suffer and nobody wants to see people lose their livlihoods, but, what you appear to be saying is, because it was someone else's fault, we should shrug our shoulders and carry on.'"

Nope. What I'm saying is that all efforts should be made to ensure that the players and staff of the Bulls don't suffer more than can be avoided, and this should take priority over any other considerations.

Quote: wrencat1873 "The RFL statement at the begining of the current franchise system reitterated it's position, whereby it said they would revoke the licence of any failing club.'"

Nope. They said that they [icould[/i revoke licences. Not [iwould[/i. Quite an important difference.

Quote: wrencat1873 "Does the current situation set a precident for ANY other failing cluib (and this has to include the likes of Salford, Cas, Widnes, Wakefield, Hull KR etc) , or is this just a case of protecting one of the games bigger clubs, one with an iconic northern stadium.'"

No idea. And irrelevant to my point.

Quote: wrencat1873 "We haven't even begun to mention the franchise system or promotion and relegation and these issues are inexorably linked, never mind the fact that at some point in the relatively near future SL numbers may well be cut and it is likely that someone will lose their place at the top table, whilst Bradford remain.
Although I have much sympathy for Bradfords plight and especially for their supporters, who are certainly innocent victims in all of this, it remains the case, that Rugby League is a game without principles and whilst it is commendable that one team is saved but, ultimately this will be at the expense of someone else.'"

What eventually happens with the size and make-up of SL is also irrelevant to whether the Bulls survive as a club. I'm completely ambivalent about whether this is in SL or the Championship - I just don't want the club to fold and people to lose their jobs.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "You are correct, the word is "could". However the point remains, under what circumstances would they actually revoke a license ?
It is difficult to imagine haw a club could fail to a greater extent in terms of financial viability !'"


eusa_clap.gif

They might as well replace 'could' with 'never'. It is clear that no SL team will ever have their license terminated. It's not even a remote possibility.

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Why punish innocent people ?Sorry,emotional blackmail that old chestnut.So we don't imprison criminals because it wouldn't be fair on the family who did nothing wrong? icon_rolleyes.gif

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