Its pretty simple. You pretending not to understand doesnt seem like a particularly smart way of getting the 'win' you're so clearly so craving.

Yes

You saidYes'"

And here we have it , the old " you don't understand " insult , always turns up when the argument is lost

Correct you said he was ' pretending ' not to understand , which isn't true , nobody has a clue what you're on about most of the time , because you talk bollox

Oooh cutting. Razor sharp wit. Great to see the internet tough men out here throwing their weight around.

Smokey - I CBA quoting every individual piece of nonsense you've spouted on here but I'll highlight a few major points. Btw, my observations come from a guy that was born and bred in Salford and has lived here for 36 of my 39 years.

Manchester's diverse ethnic population.... has ALMOST no interest in Rugby League. I'm sure there are a FEW exceptions to the rule but that's the case in any sport. I was brought up in Higher Broughton, an area heavily populated by the Orthodox Jewish community. They have little to no interest in sport. As pointed out to you by Cronus, this is the same with Manchester/Salford's, Asian, Afro-Carribean, Polish etc communities as well. It would be great if they had an interest but they don't. We have a few student fans from Salford/Manchester Uni but again I would hazard a guess that a lot of those had at least a passing interest in some form of rugby before they first attended a Salford match. Salford moving to Manchester won't allow a new club to suddenly tap into this goldmine of new fans eager for a slice of the RL pie. A more consistent/successful Salford team will bring bigger crowds to Salford as we are seeing already this season.

The "Man Utd aren't even from Manchester" argument - Jesus f*cking Christ, are people still churning out this e?! It's a petty jibe that City fans normally throw out thinking it upsets Utd fans. Trafford is in Greater Manchester and the Old Trafford ground happens to be located around 3 miles from Manchester City Centre and on the doorstep of the heart of Salford (a massive football stronghold). Out of interest, how far is Elland Road from Leeds City Centre? Moving Salford to Manchester would just alienate hardcore Salford fans who associate with their hometown (home city) club and who would have no affinity to a Manchester based club.

Those fans who think franchising in Manchester is a viable replacement for Salford Rugby Club are the sort of fans who look down on us as they see us as small fry in the RL world. Small crowds, lack of any success for decades..... readily disposable (like Wakey etc) in Rugby League's pursuit of a formula that will bring the masses flocking in and turn us into some sort of super sport that Rugby League will never be.

Toulouse and Toronto are the way forward for now. Let's grow the French game and get behind what Toronto are trying to achieve as they could be the golden ticket to growing our great game, not moving an established club 5 miles down the road into a neighbouring city.

Kallum Watkins has a Jamaican mother, is from Salford, became an RL fan in Salford, played his amateur RL in Salford, is a professional Rugby League player. Being of Afro-Carribean origin, nor any other, is a barrier or indicator of involvement in, support of, or affiliation with Rugby League.

You and Cronus, have, managed to make my point for me. There could not be a better example of the parochial outlook that i am talking about that you two arguing that a sport with the history Rugby League does, would find the Afro-Carribean community as a demographic we struggle with rather than an opportunity. Perhaps if Salford, and others, were to look at places outside of their immediate areas, and demographics other than white-working class, they wouldnt struggle with attendances so much and the game would be in a much healthier place.

There is an outstanding level of either stupidity or irony here, im not sure which it is but im in awe of it.

I started this reply earlier but got called away, hopefully I can still remember what I wanted to say.

Smokey, sometimes you are your own worst enemy!

I often find you make a great point (which makes me think), but others, challenge it, expand it or simply try and discuss it (as people do on a forum) and that is when you have issues!

It is a discussion board, yet you seem set in that your opinion is the only correct one, get annoyed with any discussion (sometimes even when it agrees with your point) and quickly desend into a lot of 'whataboutery' where even you no longer know the point you were making.

Eg in this thread someone mentioned Manchester had a large student population, your response was something about 4 universities close by in Leeds The number of universities is not important (some have less than 100 students), the point was number of students and that is what the poster intended. You can try and twist the numbers all you like but Manchester (by numerous measures) has the largest student population in Europe! (Manchester Uni or Manchester Met each have 10k students more than Leeds )

I love Leeds as a city, but haven't spent much time there so willnot/cannot compare it to GTR Manchester. Others on this thread who have more experience than me have tried to explain that the 2 cities are different, but your argument is they are not:

If the same applies to both cities as you state, why does Manchester have 2 of the richest and most famous soccer clubs in the world and Leeds have none?

To try and prove your point that ethic diversity was not an issue you used as an example a player of colour, and stated that Asians are well represented in Leeds, yet a quick look through Leeds website does not find 1 Asian fan or player.

In your posts you have confused challenges and opportunity. Several posts in this thread talked about the challenges of having a varied ethic, student population, but the only one who has suggested that is not an opportunity is you.

Maybe, occasionally think others have a valid point. You might be wrong and do what people do on a forum - have an open mind and discuss.

I know people keep mentioning Leeds, but that particular city simply isn't as well known, or as famous, as Manchester and Liverpool across the UK or worldwide.

I dont really think that is having much of an effect on RL attendances.