You are wrong.

Wakefield have given up. Conceded 260 points in last 5 games.

Just one of the million dollar questions, that no-one has a real answer to.

I'd like to know what the hell is going on with their ground, amid rumours that the franchise* may be moved AGAIN.

Also Wakefield have indeed given up, where is the motivation for the players? with their futures unstable and the black cloud of the franchise decision on the horizon. Not to mention that Wakefield's best players were cherry picked by other clubs. Indeed, our side was poor on paper before administration.

* A more apt word when describing the Welsh club.

Part of me does think they already know they are going down.

In all honesty we played shocking on friday night and still put 48 points on them, shows just how poor they are.

There surely has to be some kind of career for these people that can give you crowd numbers from TV screens alone?

It is one hell of a gift to have and I am astonished they've not been snapped up before. They're on a par with Dynamo the magician without doubt.

I will feel sorry for Wakefield without doubt but to just turn roundly on Crusaders and Harlequins is wrong when they have promised so much but not delivered on that. Some say they have promised to spend the full salary cap but didn't they promise to have a stadium built or well under way. Words without actions are just that.

I think Wakefield are great and always enjoy my trip there. It's a shame the RFL couldn't find one more place for them but with the current system there will always be one club and set of fans with their nose put out of joint. The RFL seem hell bent on keeping us and Quins in. I've written at length on here about our shortcomings and as once said I hope the RFL are keeping a close eye on goings on at the club and are exploring other potential avenues with regards to owners because something is amiss but it seems the RFL are content to drop Wakey.

If crusaders make a better application than Wakefield then they should be allowed to stay but if they make a worse application but are kept in because they are in Wales then that is wrong, the crowds and finances at Crusaders are poor, it's a baffling decision that the RFL lent them 700k and their relocation and administrations should show they were not and are not ready for Super League

it doesn't matter that Wakefield havn't met the promises they made in the past, the only thing that matters is their facilities are measured against what is available at the beginning of the 2012 season just like everyone else

It's understandable that fans of clubs are turning on each other because the clubs super league places are being decided by criteria that are not clear but it is sad this is what the process has led to, the friendly nature of the sport is being put at risk and it wont help bring the crowds together for England internationals

Well it isn't really 'baffling'

The RFL really want the game to expand to places like Wales and London so they will throw money at any franchise who wants to set up a club there.

Thats the second time you have used the same bait. When it was ignored the first time, what made you think someone fall for it the 2nd?

I'm with you there. IF it's true that John Kear is one of the applicants for the Cas' job, then as far as I'm concerned it's case proved. Now, rising with great reluctance to the Crusaders' gate trolling, given some decent signings (apparently they know who they want and are well down the track of getting them), a hassle free winter and a decent start gates should be back near 5k by this time next year. Also the currently unresolved troubles of the soccer club ain't helping, as people tend to connect the two.

Ahhhhhhhhhh right.

I hear you.

'it never happened'

I like your style.

I've spent many a year being the archetypical RL fan, looking at the crowd as much as I do the score. As a fan of a Championship club I've been in a lot of crowds around the 1-3,000 mark.

I thought it looked like about 1500. I might be wrong, and by a whole 100% but then again I might not be.

It's only embarrassing it if never happens and if this can be demonstrated. However, within the last year the CEO of Melbourne Storm admitted that the Storm used to do it and that he thinks a lot of other clubs do. There is motive as to why they would do it as an announcement of a crowd around 1500 would be embarrassing.

As others have said, if you have some sort of gift that enables you to work out accurate crowd numbers in such a way then you should be on TV.

After every Sky game we get people coming on here claiming that Crusaders are lying about their crowds and quite frankly it's pathetic, especially as most of these claims come from people who have more than likely never been to the Racecourse Ground. If this was a Wakefield or Halifax game, nobody would be claiming that they were lying. I don't know why people cannot accept that Crusaders do have fans - not a lot, but there are around 2,500 regulars and probably a couple of hundred casual fans at any one game. Slate them for the low crowd numbers by all means, but pretending that they are lying about attendances is just making the people doing so look desperate. I'm not suggesting that the poster I quoted has any sort of motive against Crusaders BTW, but they've had a crowd of around 1,500 for a televised Challenge Cup game and it looked nothing like the crowd last night.

It's not a gift, it's called eyes. I'm currently watching Halifax v Leigh, I'll use my eyes to make a prediction now. Based on prior knowledge of being in crowds, of knowing the capacity of the stadium and seeing that one stand is completely shut I'm going to say there are about 7-8,000 there. I may be a little out but I can tell you now it is nowhere near 3,500 or 15,000 which would be the same margin of error as I would have made last night.

Also bear in mind, if it is announced as about 7,000. Then there are only roughly twice as many as there were last night. In reality it is a lot lot more than double.



Where is your gift that makes you say that the crowd looked nothing like the one from last night?

Just been on the Wrexham forum and there are two Wrexham FC fans that state it doesn't look like more than 2,000 there. One who has been going the racecourse for 40 years said, 'If there are more than 2,000 there I'll eat my hat.'

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe people are commenting on it because it looked nothing like 3,055? I'd compare it to a Salford game (who do get criticised) when they have 3,000 at a game they still have a stand that is pretty full that faces the cameras. There was nowhere at the stadium that had a concentration of fans.

It is ridiculous to pretend the difference between 1500 and 3k is the same as the difference between 7.5k and 15k. It is much easier to tell the difference between 7.5k and 15k than it is 1.5k and 3k because the numbers are bigger. Similarly it is easier to tell the difference between 1m and 2m than it is the difference between 1000 and 2000.

What is ridiculous here is that your guess itself has a margin of error of 1k, pretty much the difference between 2 and 3k. You admit you cannot in an attendance of 7k be confident in a guess to a margin of error of 1k, but are confident in stating that despite seeing nothing but a camera angle, that an attendance of 3k is wrong because it is 1k away from what you think.

It looked like nothing. If anyone from watching the game on tv could ever have made any kind of accurate guess then they do have a gift. The camera never showed enough information. People are guessing, they are guessing in a way which fits their bias and goes against the actual evidence we have. For that, they are idiots.