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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Gone are international appearance exemptions, development allowances, liabilities and all the rest of the add ons and throw ins that have come about through the years. It's now, the cap + home grown cap cap.

The new rule will take Leeds saints and Wigan away from the rest of the pack initially. But if that encourages the rest to invest heavily in producing English talent to catch up surely that's a good thing? I think there's a misconception amongst fans that the salary cap is to make the league "fair" - it's not, it's to make the clubs do what the rfl want. And it's a great way to make everyone produce a lot more talent (without blithely just taking away the foreign talent we have in the league which is borderline illegal) '"
I have no problem with that, Im very comfortable with us using the cap in this way, it is one of our levers to force clubs to improve.
Quote: Magic Superbeetle "
Realistically how often are we going to see a team promoted and not be blown away? Saints put 50 on hull kr the season they were promoted (I believe I may have my games mixed up it was a while ago!) there are always going to be scores like that. There is no way to make the bottom of the championship competitive with the top of super league - but it's a door for championship clubs to be competitive.'"
You wouldn’t expect a promoted team to be beating the top SL clubs, but for this league to work the top championship clubs have to be competitive with the top SL clubs. If for simplicities sake we assume a direct correlation between spending and on field quality, then what we are looking for is a league where are clubs are spending roughly the same so that the league is pretty equal. Instead, with what has been proposed, we are looking at a league where the top championship clubs will be spending a max of £900k on £600k funding, the bottom SL clubs can spend up to £1.6m and possibly a little more on £1.2m funding, and the top SL clubs spending upwards of £2m and more (pretty much!) guaranteed income from their additional matches against each other. Those are pretty big gaps.

For the first 23 rounds to be competitive we need the lower SL clubs to be spending £1.5/£1.6m so that they aren’t going to be blown away by the top SL clubs, if they are spending £1.5/£1.6m then they are going to be spending almost double the championship clubs and that isn’t going to be competitive. If they are spending around £1.1/£1.2m then the top Championship clubs could be competitive with them, but those sides will get absolutely destroyed by the top SL clubs, we are talking about a difference there of the entire championship SC.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Fordy "I'm not sure that Wigan's was a technicality, unless I am remembering it incorrectly.

They were at the limit then went and signed Dobson and Fielden because they were worried of the threat of relegation, but they decided it was Ok to do that and defer their wages till another season. If anyone in their right mind believes the players ACTUALLY deferred their wages as opposed to it being a neat accounting trick then they are very gullible in my eyes.
That's not getting caught out by a technicality, that's blatant cheating of the Salary cap system.


EDIT
That’s not quite what Wigan did, which was to have players contracted at a lower wage that season, with a new contract at a higher wage seasons after. There was nothing particularly wrong with that an many clubs back and forward loaded contracts. What the RFL decided however was that the renegotiation of existing contracts to do this was against the spirit of the cap.

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The current Salary cap is fine, top clubs with great academies can spent easily 2 million.
What we need to do is market the game much much better.
We need a lot more money from the next TV deal and that is very possible with much improved competition between TV companies.
We need an actual and decent sponsor.
Add these extra funds into clubs and we'll get no more clubs going bust and the championship clubs having a chance of building

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Quote: Starbug "As I have put on the other thread, a simple rule stating that every game played must be to the ' lower ' clubs overseas quota would make it very dangerous for any club to fill its squad with overseas players or to neglect their junior development

It would not prevent the ' top ' clubs signing marquee players, but would discourage lower clubs signing ' journeymen ''"



Hull KR would have to field their under 16's just to legally play Leigh.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Wire Yed "Hull KR would have to field their under 16's just to legally play Leigh.'"

Except they wouldn’t because under championship quota rules, Lovegrove, Costigan, Larroyer, Panui and Maki would all be exempt, and Burns, Keating, Poore and Weyman would likely find themselves applying for a nice new british passport.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: SmokeyTA "Except they wouldn’t because under championship quota rules, Lovegrove, Costigan, Larroyer, Panui and Maki would all be exempt, and Burns, Keating, Poore and Weyman would likely find themselves applying for a nice new british passport.'"


Which would make them eligble for Wales,Scotland or Ireland, therefore improving the options of the home nations, but would probably put an end to the ' residency ' loophole, which would be another good thing

Problem solved, not hard is it?

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Wire Yed "Hull KR would have to field their under 16's just to legally play Leigh.'"


It would certainly add some ' jeapody ' ,wouldnt it?

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Starbug "Which would make them eligble for Wales,Scotland or Ireland, therefore improving the options of the home nations, but would probably put an end to the ' residency ' loophole, which would be another good thing

Problem solved, not hard is it?'"

it wouldnt make them eligible for the home nations. England yes, Wales, Scotland and Ireland no. You havent solved any problem, simply pretended it doesnt exist. Its moronic.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "I have no problem with that, Im very comfortable with us using the cap in this way, it is one of our levers to force clubs to improve.
You wouldn’t expect a promoted team to be beating the top SL clubs, but for this league to work the top championship clubs have to be competitive with the top SL clubs. If for simplicities sake we assume a direct correlation between spending and on field quality, then what we are looking for is a league where are clubs are spending roughly the same so that the league is pretty equal. Instead, with what has been proposed, we are looking at a league where the top championship clubs will be spending a max of £900k on £600k funding, the bottom SL clubs can spend up to £1.6m and possibly a little more on £1.2m funding, and the top SL clubs spending upwards of £2m and more (pretty much!) guaranteed income from their additional matches against each other. Those are pretty big gaps.

For the first 23 rounds to be competitive we need the lower SL clubs to be spending £1.5/£1.6m so that they aren’t going to be blown away by the top SL clubs, if they are spending £1.5/£1.6m then they are going to be spending almost double the championship clubs and that isn’t going to be competitive. If they are spending around £1.1/£1.2m then the top Championship clubs could be competitive with them, but those sides will get absolutely destroyed by the top SL clubs, we are talking about a difference there of the entire championship SC.'"


The championship clubs also have the home grown rule too, so hopefully there development will help even out the salary cap gaps. Though in reality it seems unlikely.

I think the thinking isn't necessarily that you can jump from one tier to the next quickly. Rather, it takes a couple of years consolidation in each group before moving on. Blowouts happen, but it will be up to clubs to respond to them and improve. If they don't, the top 8 will drift into a league of it's own, destroy the bottom 4 consistently before moving to the "real" competition. (This is my greatest concern with the system)

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Magic Superbeetle "The championship clubs also have the home grown rule too, so hopefully there development will help even out the salary cap gaps. Though in reality it seems unlikely.'"
id say doubly unlikely in that it will also mean that the top clubs, or ambitious SL clubs hoover up all the talent. Im also not sure how clubs who dont have academies are going to get many home grown players.

Quote: Magic Superbeetle "I think the thinking isn't necessarily that you can jump from one tier to the next quickly. Rather, it takes a couple of years consolidation in each group before moving on. Blowouts happen, but it will be up to clubs to respond to them and improve. If they don't, the top 8 will drift into a league of it's own, destroy the bottom 4 consistently before moving to the "real" competition. (This is my greatest concern with the system)'"
its what is almost certain to happen.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



What it might do ( because NOBODY knows for certain ) is force all clubs to start acting like sustainable RL clubs, to start acting like businesses, and to start looking how to get more paying customers and sponsors instead of relying soley on SKY money to fund them

Then again it might not, but those that do, will most likely be the ones to succeed

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Quote: Starbug "What it might do ( because NOBODY knows for certain ) is force all clubs to start acting like sustainable RL clubs, to start acting like businesses, and to start looking how to get more paying customers and sponsors instead of relying soley on SKY money to fund them

Then again it might not, but those that do, will most likely be the ones to succeed'"


So there is no difference from the franchise system? Im sure london, huddersfield and salford would all love more supporters and everybody would love new sponsors.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: dubairl "So there is no difference from the franchise system? Im sure london, huddersfield and salford would all love more supporters and everybody would love new sponsors.'"


And the tried and trusted method of getting them is?

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[b:3diuzizv][color=#0000FF:3diuzizv]WAKEFIELD[/color:3diuzizv] [color=#FF0000:3diuzizv]TRINITY[/color:3diuzizv] - [color=#FF0000:3diuzizv]The[/color:3diuzizv] [color=#0000FF:3diuzizv]PRIDE[/color:3diuzizv] [color=#FF0000:3diuzizv]of[/color:3diuzizv] [color=#0000FF:3diuzizv]Sporting[/color:3diuzizv] [color=#FF0000:3diuzizv]Wakefield[/color:3diuzizv][/b:3diuzizv] [b:3diuzizv][color=#FF0000:3diuzizv]THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS[/color:3diuzizv][/b:3diuzizv]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_14911.jpg



Quote: SmokeyTA "That’s not quite what Wigan did, which was to have players contracted at a lower wage that season, with a new contract at a higher wage seasons after. There was nothing particularly wrong with that an many clubs back and forward loaded contracts. What the RFL decided however was that the renegotiation of existing contracts to do this was against the spirit of the cap.'"



Or to put it another way, blatant cheating of the salary cap.

As I said before anyone that believes that any players actually received less money as opposed to having less money reported on the books is extremely naive.

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Magic Superbeetle "If they don't, the top 8 will drift into a league of it's own, destroy the bottom 4 consistently before moving to the "real" competition. (This is my greatest concern with the system)'"


This is my worry as well.

For a club like Leeds or Wigan, this system works. For anyone else, it doesn't, no matter how much it appears to.

If you are relatively confident that you'll always be in the top eight, fantastic. The gap between you and the lower portion of the league increases every season. Whilst the top clubs have the intensity of playing each other, whilst they cream the chunk of the prize money, the commercial revenue and whilst they can retain and recruit the best players, the rest will get dragged further and further to the bottom by playing the lowest common denominator.

The Championship clubs wanted this because they want an opportunity at Super League. In five years time, we'll see the same clubs arguing that they can't break into the top eight because the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, St Helens, Huddersfield, Hull, Catalans and Salford are too far away from them and that "SL1" is effectively a closed shop.

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