Indeed. In fact, Wigan were 'motivated' to spend £200k more than they were supposed to on player salaries in order to stay in the league.

In that respect, not much really changed for "The Wigan Club" I suppose.

I wonder how many who think Super League is a joke also think Sandercock is a joke because two games in a weekend is just how we do things here.

The enforcement of rules is a completely separate issue. If Wigan broke the rules to a sufficiently serious degree that the RFL believed they ought to have been relegated anyhow, then I wouldn't have argued. ( The rules remain ill-conceived, but you still have to follow what you sign up to each season ). If they'd gone down, then so be it. If a p*sspoor Wigan had been allowed to just hang around without consequence I'm certain they'd have taken much longer to get back near the top.

Allowing p*sspoor leadership to stick around without consequence or accountability...hmm...surely the RFL wouldn't agree with that kind of thing?

Also in 2003 there was no Catalans Dragons although their reliance upon imported talent isn't as strong as it used to be.



How does that belief apply to coaches? Don't they fear failure and its consequences? Are you suggesting that they don't and that the only way to instill dramatic improvement for teams is to re-introduce promotion and relegation? If anything scorelines before P&R were abolished were worse than they are now e.g. 9th placed Salford conceding 96 at Bradford.

I make it Catalans currently have 9 overseas players in their squad, which is joint 2nd worst with Hull KR after London with 12. The best improvers have been Hudds (8 down to 4), Cas (9 down to 5) and Hull FC (10 down to 6). The worst, interestingly, being Saints and Widnes both increasing from 6 in 2003 to 7 in 2013.

I knew we weren't the best but that's terrible. There's at least two of those out of contract at the end of this year although both will probably be exempt from quota so may end up elsewhere or stay (Meli is resident and Laffranchi has EU status, I'm not 100% on either status being exactly correct)

I think it's a consequence of losing key players (Sculthorpe, Cunningham, Long, Lyon/Gidley) in a relatively short time, something Leeds will probably suffer from in a few years time.
Yeah I dont know of their exact status with regard to who is Overseas Quota or Non-Fed Trained or anything like that, for instance everyone knows Pat Richards has an Irish passport but I think we can all agree he's an overseas player. So I just went with those who I think most people would agree was an overseas player.
It'll be interesting over the next few years as those exempt from the Non-Fed Trained list are slowly retired or move on and the amount of overseas players reduces further. More pressure will come upon clubs to produce and develop quality players themselves.

Wigan - 4 (Green, Lauaki, Richards, Gelling).

5 if you want to be pedantic - Hansen, despite UK residency since being a young child.

Last season Leuluai, Carmont, Lima & Finch all left the club and have been replaced (Green being the sole exception) by UK talent, mostly via the successful Wigan Academy.

Going forward (and from what I've heard) expect Lauaki to be offloaded at the end of the season. Gelling is also OOC and will probably leave.

That's what I've got, I meant best improvers as in those who reduced by the most, those clubs reducing by 4 players. Wigan, if my figures are correct, had 6 overseas players in 2003. Nick Graham, Craig Smith, Julian O'Neill, Adrian Lam, Quentin Pongia and Brett Dallas. Incidentally, the squarest chin I've ever seen!

I was replying to a poster who tried to defend London's continuing presence by questioning whether Wigan should have been kicked out when they were c&£p. As I Wigan fan I say, if they'd finished last, yes. For a town like Wigan, even bankruptcy doesn't scare me like its supposed to terrify us all into thinking the tiny cap is a good idea - Wigan would find a way to get a new club going from the ashes, I'm certain of that.

The occasional blowout score doesn't bother me so much ( it happens in RL) as carrying a core of clubs who enter each season with nothing to play for ( finishing eighth is more or less meaningless if you don't stand a chance against a big club that's actually trying). At the start of the football season, every club has something to play for, even if its just staying up.

Without a protective financial structure such as parachute payments, P&R is tricky, we know, but if we stick with franchising we need to put more heat on clubs like London, so that there's a genuine threat of being kicked out should they fail to meet minimum targets. I'm all for bring supportive and giving clubs time, but that doesn't extend to tolerating the same people delivering the same c£&p over and over with no sign of improvement.

Particularly so since our chairman blathered on in 2011 about giving yoof a chance (which was fine in 2011 when we were building a new stadium and needed to recruit on the cheap but in fact he's turned out to be a politician).

Jamie Ainscough as well. Counts as 0.99 of an Overseas player if you include Gleeson's tooth.

Did that retire Ainscough, or am I remembering wrong? Didn't he get a bad blood infection?

Saints have 7, do they? Soliola, Manu, Perry, Laffranchi, Hohaia, Meli and Tony Puletua.

Mmm. TP, Perry, Meli and Laffranchi are all OOC at he end of the year. If rumours are to be believed, Perry's latest injury is a career ender. Puletua is also strongly rumoured to be leaving. For the salary I imagine Boof's getting, I wouldn't worry about keeping him on. Meli will get another year, i reckon.

I don't think you'd get anybody arguing with that in principle. Unfortunately where it gets a bit undermined is when we consider that, unlike say football, the likelihood of their replacements being able to grasp the mettle is lower. I'm not using that as an excuse for mismanagement in Super League just fleshing out the picture around it. That's a Super League issue first and foremost and is unlikely to change without a significant cash injection into the RFL i.e. the clubs have the money and therefore the power currently. They are able, rightly or wrongly, to dictate the way that part of our game goes.

Yet we've played about 23 different Brits this season . . . . .

Do you seriously not think Saints are giving youth a chance this season?