I agree with you we should try all places within a few hours flying ie Spain Germany Belgium even but I still think Toronto is to far to go

Indeed.

I have removed the OP as it was clearly designed to annoy and provoke. The thread title should give sufficient flavour to make sense of what has followed, I hope.

Expansion is a legitimate topic for debate, and people are entitled to different opinions that they can discuss sensibly and respectfully.

What I don’t think we need is for every tiny facet to have its own thread, used as an excuse to put ‘new’ bait on the line.

On topic, I don’t understand why so many seem to see this as a zero-sum game. We could have strong heartlands clubs and growth in other parts of the country or world. They’re not mutually exclusive at all - indeed each makes the other more likely imo.

Biting the hand that feeds if you’re critical of your benefactor, and fans have an affection for their clubs that they lack for the RFL.

I don’t think the RFL has done a great job in recent years, but i do think they’re given a lot more responsibility than authority, and they do make a good lightening rod. Criticism of them not forcing clubs to have reserve teams being a good recent example.

The current clubs can only promote the game at local level the primary function is to promote the playing product, for me the RFL should be doing much more at national level with a much broader marketing strategy. If they can do that and clubs outside the heartlands develop quicker than the traditional clubs then these weaker clubs will go back to amateur status.

As we have said many times before how can clubs promote the game at a higher level with big sponsors like Apple, O2, Guiness, Land Rover etc when the RFL governing body is profiling our sport to a Mushy Peas and Bet Fred standard, shouldn't that be the other way around. I should imagine when Superleague splits from the RFL this kind of situation would be the first corrective.

1. I am a southerner, who is 100% in favour of expansion.
2. I don't trust the motives or the arguments for Toronto Wolfpack at all.
3. I believe that if we are to promote the game to new audiences, we should do so in a structured and planned manner, not at the whim of a rich bloke who can vanish as quickly as he arrived.....and I include Hughes, Davy and a hst of other benefactors in this, not just Argyle.
4. I am absolutely in favour of culling some of the deadwood clubs from SL in favour of "super" clubs such as Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London, Southern France etc....the British sporting public have no interest in Wakefield v Leigh....2 town that most couldn't find on a map and that's our biggest problem.....the Wakefields and the Leighs holding the game back.
5. The Clubs have a responsibility to market themselves and the game. Failure to attract 9,000 as a minimum should result in the clubs central funding being halved. Then you'll see some innovative concepts and marketing ploys....instead of just sitting there waiting for the 1.8 million cheque to clear each year. Even Ken Davy would think long and hard about having to find another million a year to prop his toy up...

For me the criticism is not necessarily that clubs aren't promoting nationally, but that even at a local level, they are failing to deliver growth. There are huge untapped markets on our doorstep, and some affulent areas that we can tap into within the heartland region. But I simply don't see the clubs doing enough to make themselves relevant to new audiences, I don't see them developing the matchday experience and I don't see them growing. That, fundamentally, is a failure at club level.



We attract the sponsors that we do because we attract the audiences that we do. The clubs are not going to attract the sort of brands that you talk about because those brands either aren't interested in the audience we offer, or because those brands can reach those audiences much more cheaply through other means.

If we want to insist that the 'future' of this sport is by 'strengthening' it in places where the High Streets are filled with bookies, fast food outlets and pawn brokers, we have no right to be surprised when the sponsors we attract at online bookmakers, tinned mushy peas and payday loans. Splitting the SL from the RFL doesn't change that and if you honestly want to believe that Ian Lenaghan is the man to bring in new sponsors, take a look at the Wigan RLFC accounts and look at the section where they attribute a £680k loss to the loss of a major sponsor.

And again, the clubs have to carry some of that can. They are the primary point of consumption, and if they are constantly talking to audiences that are only interested in a cheap ticket, then that's not going to interest the CMO of Jaguar Land Rover.

What makes you think they’d do better in this department?

I agree with you we should try all places within a few hours flying ie Spain Germany Belgium even but I still think Toronto is to far to go

Why do the RFL need to force clubs? We’ve had enough teams currently or in the past year or two who have reserve teams, why aren’t they capable of doing it themselves without needing the RFL to hold their hand and do it for them. This is the same RFL that clubs have come out criticising and saying they can do things better yet they can’t even manage a reserve competition without them doing it for them.

Like many, I'm not sure the Toronto venture has a long-term future. On the other hand, does that matter? Were they to manage, say, 3 seasons in SL while presenting a reasonably full ground to the TV audience over that period then they'll have served some purpose. And before anyone interprets this as some sort of veiled dig at the usual suspects whose clubs are on the breadline, I'd add that their grounds actually appear more vibrant on TV than do those of bigger clubs with sub-10k attendances rattling around in 25k-seater venues. And those who regard this factor as insignificant in terms of developing the game might care to reflect upon fears expressed in today's Times by the head of the RFU at the prospect of Ealing (of miniscule crowds) gaining promotion to the RU Premiership and of the damage that would do the game in terms of that gane's marketability. So while I accept the premise about attracting sponsors pertinent to our customer base, I'd also add that the game would be easier to sell were it able to prevent a more vibrant spectacle than the moribund terraces and stands that currently occupy the screen on a Thursday and Friday night.

Wigan and Hull game.

Edit, Mild Rover. If you have concerns about the moderation process, please contact site admin. Just to note, they will be able to see your deleted OP.

Please also refer to the sticky at the top of the VT index page.

What about it?

In NRL heartland

As the Mod says, he removed it as it was clearly designed to annoy and provoke, something a few of you are doing on here with free reign. Hats off to mild rover for seeing the op for what it was, hopefully we shall see more of this.