A contradiction, an inspiration, a man of courage and conviction, a man with human frailties and foibles, a man of huge charisma and above all.....

The Greatest....

RIP

"Rumble, young man...rumble!"

Of his friend Joe Frasier (yes, they were FRIENDS!!) he called him “a gorilla” and an “ugly, dumb Uncle Tom” and really whipped up hate for him.

Read Ghosts of Manila, I respect him for objecting to fight in the Vietnam war (not that his reasoning made any sense nor indeed did he understand what the war was about), I respect his efforts in the ring against the top fighters (though he fought a lot of bums AND there were a fair few fixed fights!) but the fawning over Ali is mostly based around the whimsical crud from the media that those around him and indeed he himself helped create.

Talented, charismatic but certainly not the greatest inside or outside the ring.
I truly hope he does rest in peace.

The stuff about Frazier was to sell the fights no different to what others did today.

HIS REFUSAL TO GO TO WAR IN VIETNAM MADE A LOT MORE SENSE THAN YOUNG AMERICAN 19 YEAR OLDS WHO WENT TO WAR EVER DID. REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY EXPRESSED IT.

As for greatest he was the greatest heavyweight by some distance. Only joe Louis came close.

Maybe sugar ray and Henry Armstrong where better fighters but at lower weights.

As for fixed fights never heard that always had my suspicions about Ken Norton in 1976 but thought that was crap judging going with the crowd favourite.

You actually read what Ali said about the conflict and his reasoning? There were a lot of senseless things about the Vietnam confrontation but sending young combatants to war isn't senseless in itself. Understanding why you are making a political stance against something is pretty important would you not say, especially given his obvious position of power from many angles and not just within pugilism?
The phrase 'The Greatest' was bandied about, that means exactly what it says, he just isn't, not even in the heavyweights, peak Holmes beats mid 60s Clay AND 71-74 Ali too, Joe Louis is a no-brainer quite frankly, delve a bit deeper into some of the shady goings on, the Ken Norton fight just on its own was certainly a black mark against Ali in boxing terms but wasn't even the most controversial of his dodgy decisions.

As for all weight GOAT, Ali maybe scrapes into the top 10 for me..sorry, some may say that's a stupid thing to say but hey, everyone is entitled to opinions and this happens to be mine.

I personally found his vilification of Frazier disgusting - as did Frazier himself. The saddest part of that was that Frazier genuinely was from dirt-poor stock, with a far poorer upbringing than Ali.

I also think his stance on interracial relations to be too extreme (although of its time), and his stance on the roles of men and women ditto (and also hypocritical given what he got up to, but again he's not alone there).

What can't be denied is his anti Vietnam stance, which cost him immensely, his showmanship and his obvious courage and class in the ring. Whether he was the greatest in pure boxing terms who knows, but he was certainly the most iconic boxer there has ever been or probably will be.

The greatest heavyweight of all time IMO. Say what you want about him outside the ring, although he was an angel in comparison to some of the other fighters of his era (Liston, Monzon, Carter, Foreman), it doesn't make him any less great in it. Incomparable speed, and footwork for his size, a near perfect jab, an almost superhuman chin, who fought some of the greatest fighters to ever step in the ring at their peak. Frazer, Foreman, Liston, Paterson, Moore, Foster. Plus others like Norton, Shavers, Quarry, Chuvolo, and Ellis. Nobody since comes close to that kind of cv since.
He wasn't perfect, but nobody is especially in a sport like boxing.

Quote: knockersbumpMKII "You actually read what Ali said about the conflict and his reasoning? There were a lot of senseless things about the Vietnam confrontation but sending young combatants to war isn't senseless in itself. Understanding why you are making a political stance against something is pretty important would you not say, especially given his obvious position of power from many angles and not just within pugilism? The phrase 'The Greatest' was bandied about, that means exactly what it says, he just isn't, not even in the heavyweights, peak Holmes beats mid 60s Clay AND 71-74 Ali too, Joe Louis is a no-brainer quite frankly, delve a bit deeper into some of the shady goings on, the Ken Norton fight just on its own was certainly a black mark against Ali in boxing terms but wasn't even the most controversial of his dodgy decisions. As for all weight GOAT, Ali maybe scrapes into the top 10 for me..sorry, some may say that's a stupid thing to say but hey, everyone is entitled to opinions and this happens to be mine.'" This is an example of what he said about Vietnam. A mixture of anti imperialism, black nationalism and anti American establishment. Hard to disagree with anything he said. alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/muha ... ight-1967/

Quote: knockersbumpMKII "You actually read what Ali said about the conflict and his reasoning? There were a lot of senseless things about the Vietnam confrontation but sending young combatants to war isn't senseless in itself. Understanding why you are making a political stance against something is pretty important would you not say, especially given his obvious position of power from many angles and not just within pugilism? The phrase 'The Greatest' was bandied about, that means exactly what it says, he just isn't, not even in the heavyweights, peak Holmes beats mid 60s Clay AND 71-74 Ali too, Joe Louis is a no-brainer quite frankly, delve a bit deeper into some of the shady goings on, the Ken Norton fight just on its own was certainly a black mark against Ali in boxing terms but wasn't even the most controversial of his dodgy decisions. As for all weight GOAT, Ali maybe scrapes into the top 10 for me..sorry, some may say that's a stupid thing to say but hey, everyone is entitled to opinions and this happens to be mine.'" This is an example of what he said about Vietnam. A mixture of anti imperialism, black nationalism and anti American establishment. Hard to disagree with anything he said. alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/muha ... ight-1967/

He was the best heavyweight ever IMO. He is remembered largely for his 1970s big fights but he was then a shadow of the boxer he was pre-ban in 1967. He was just coming to his peak then and was unbelievable. His reflexes were astonishing. He hardly ever got hit and his jabs were devastating. As we found out late in his career, when he did get hit he could take a punch as well as any boxer I can remember. He revolutionised the heavyweight division and there has been nobody since who has been able to emulate his unique style. As to Joe Louis - he did not fight the calibre of boxers that Clay / Ali did.

He was the best heavyweight ever IMO. He is remembered largely for his 1970s big fights but he was then a shadow of the boxer he was pre-ban in 1967. He was just coming to his peak then and was unbelievable. His reflexes were astonishing. He hardly ever got hit and his jabs were devastating. As we found out late in his career, when he did get hit he could take a punch as well as any boxer I can remember. He revolutionised the heavyweight division and there has been nobody since who has been able to emulate his unique style. As to Joe Louis - he did not fight the calibre of boxers that Clay / Ali did.

He was the best heavyweight ever IMO. He is remembered largely for his 1970s big fights but he was then a shadow of the boxer he was pre-ban in 1967. He was just coming to his peak then and was unbelievable. His reflexes were astonishing. He hardly ever got hit and his jabs were devastating. As we found out late in his career, when he did get hit he could take a punch as well as any boxer I can remember. He revolutionised the heavyweight division and there has been nobody since who has been able to emulate his unique style. As to Joe Louis - he did not fight the calibre of boxers that Clay / Ali did.

Loved the documantary the other night on BBC 1....what a LEGEND !

He wasn't quick enough to avoid ' Enry's hammer '

But yes , the greatest

Interesting that Benn, Eubank, Bellew, Nelson, Watt............... have all been rolled out to offer what Ali gave to them and boxing but nothing from the current world heavyweight champion

A superb sportsman who saved boxing.

Was he the most famous man on the planet at the height of his fame?

If you want to see the way Ali moved in the days before his ban go to that well known video sharing site and enter Ali v Cleveland Williams full fight. A few Ali shuffles in there whilst actually fighting seriously. In about 7 minutes of boxing landed 100 punches against 3. Although Williams was in his thirties by then it was a world title fight and Williams was considered one of the best heavyweights never to win the world title.

I'm far from a boxing expert, so I can't make any reliable statements about being the greatest HW of all time; but if ever there was an athlete who transcended his sport to become a worldwide cultural icon - it's Ali. There's no doubt he said some questionable things about race and religion, but in the context of the times he lived in, they are less inflammatory than they appear.

It's very sad that he's gone, but I would imagine it's also a relief to those people who knew him.