Doom&Gloom Merchant wrote:Weird how the Wigan players (Farrel, Bateman and O'Loughlin) have been picked out for criticism.


Welcome to the VT.

That's because they are being touted as internationals when they are obviously not up to the mark.

I'd balance criticism of Farrell to say that Sargison was very good last year. Its not anti-Wigan from me - its anti- over-hyped SL forwards getting hammered when it counts at international level.

don't forget when discussing international selections, it's only for players from 4 clubs and the NRL, i'm surprised whitehead is getting mentioned.

Size and frame on players can be incredibly deceptive.

If you've ever stood next to Jamie Peacock in his training gear, while he's tall he's not particularly thick set. His legs in particular don't look like those of your stereotypical RL prop forward.

Hasn't stopped him being one of the most effective forwards of the SL era though.

I do think back row is a bit of an issue, although it depends on how some of the youngsters mature physically. We seem to have quite a few young lightweight forwards who look promising but you get the feeling would get run over if they played NRL or test rugby league.

Don't rate Ferres or Westerman and I think Farrell lacks the size to dominate at international level, Wardle would have the same issue if we tried to play him at second row for England. Westwood and O'Loughlin are past their best, so if I was selecting for an international right now I'd take Tomkins, Currie, and Whitehead and probably Stevie Ward although I have my doubts about his physicality.

I thought Westerman looked better than Farrell last year.

I think Ferres, Westerman & Whitehead all have what it takes to be international backrowers, not that I would necessarily want to see all 3 together.

I was just going don my tin hat and post that Joe Westerman was definitely in with a shot but the last couple of posters beat me to it.

I haven't seen much of Westerman recently but I watched the 2nd half of Hull vs. Catalan and Westerman was dreadful with the ball. He must have ruined at least 3 chances on the Catalan line with stupid/poor play.

Remember when Westerman and Sam Burgess were the Great White Hopes of English rugby league? Seems to me he never really fulfilled his early promise.

How about Greenwood? The more I see him play the more impressed I get. Rare breed in that while he's a very talented player, he's also got some size about him. He's 6'3 and 105kg, for comparison Liam Farrell is apparently 6 foot and 93kg, Whitehead 6'1 100kg.

Oliver Holmes from Castleford must be in with a shout, surprised me when I learnt last night he's only 22 years old.

i was going to post somethig similar, he has been around for years and always impressed me, i reckon he is as good if not better than some names that are floating around. he's big, strong, fast, good hands and decent defence too..
cas fans will tell us that he's been consistently good for a few years now and would deserve a mention, but we all know that when it comes to the England team it's who you play for... most 2nd rowers from Leeds,Wigan, Saints and wire will almost always get the nod ahead of players from castleford either from the coach or on on forums.

To be honest I forgot about Holmes when writing the OP, but agree that he should be mentioned alongside the names in this thread.

I had no idea he was just 22 either

Greenwood looks at least 6'4 maybe 6'5.Stands out as being head and shoulders above most everytime i have seen him. And i agree, looks a real prospect