Or we could be stuck with legacy clubs using outdated business models, wholly reliant on Sky TV money, and a dwindling fan base - whilst other sports march ahead.

I went to Toronto / Kingston / Ottawa last summer to visit family and take in a few sights . I walked to TWP ground to have a look at it so I could say been there and I walked to Ottawa's ground in Lansdowne Park . Ottawa's is a far superior ground in a nice area with a cinema , shops , restaurants etc . Also Ottawa's ground is used by the Red Blacks (CFL) and until last season the Fury (Football) so they are more used to having the city represented at that ground, not the case in Toronto .

Canadian fans support their teams , they aren't too bothered if there are Canadians in the team , the Raptors didn't start with many Canadians and I don't believe the Blue Jays did either . The side note from our experience of Kingston would be that the Leafs are better supported that the Senators in Ontario , so I believe Ottawa's support would come from that city and suburbs , but Gatineau , Quebec is across the river and it used the called Hull.

In the end most people believe our sport is struggling , so why not try expansion, English Super League clubs have to look at the bigger picture not just their club as we could end up being left with fewer full time clubs .

Ottawa makes a NATV deal more appealing that either Super League as a whole gain from or just the NA clubs if a SKY deal or other UK broadcaster is just for the UK clubs .

New York again increases the NATV deal chances and might lead to Chicago , Jacksonville and others . If SKY etc are concerned with fewer UK clubs well why not increase Super League to 14 clubs and get rid of the loop fixtures , with 14 clubs there will be more UK clubs than now .

The supposed best league in the world the NRL have 16 clubs and are probably going to expand so why are we so stuck on 12 .

WRT expansion the NFL does pretty good on TV deals outside of the US and if such a cash rich league is also looking at expansion clubs outside the US then I would suggest that it probably is the way to go.

Imagine the future where say the schedule of each English club is the play New York then Ottawa then Toronto on consecutive weekends (yes I know that's a long way off) , but what a 2 week holiday you could have .

Yeah image the cost on clubs what is already a fragile sport

Saying is one thing coffing up the money to finance it is another

I despair at these dreamers

Perhaps it won't happen , the bigger dream is that our clubs won't be as cash strapped due to some great super duper TV deal . I was looking at it more from the perspective that if all 3 were to end up in Super League then would it not be cheaper certainly as a fan to only have to do one return Transatlantic flight in the season rather than three , whether that works out cheaper for an entire team I'm not sure. As a fan you choose how many you want to go to and you can drive or catch the train from Toronto to Ottawa .

My thoughts are that TWP will not survive in Super League and that as they go down Ottawa come up at join them which would cause a bigger problem for the Championship .

We then get back to a situation on just where their players will actually come from.
Drop half of the SL sides and yo would also lose their reserves, academies and junior set up's.

Have the N. Americans got a magic wand ???

It's an extremely cruel irony that they come into a sport which only exists because of the very clubs that will be seen as collateral damage.

I really dont see where the 5/10/20 year plan goes and nobody seems prepared to make public the grand plan, assuming that there is a grad plan to make public. As we are talking about Rugby League, it's all on the back of a fag packet somewhere

Toronto have spent $12.000,000 to be bottom of SL. The man who spent it is a billionaire Australian RL fanatic. Neither Ottawa or New York will name let alone introduce us to their alleged sugar daddies. I agree with you that Ottawa and New York are bulling themselves up to try to get, along with TWP, an NATV deal, but have you ever stopped to consider the real interest in RL in North America is just about zero? Americans do like Rugby but that's the Union version they like, play and invest in. League was rejected and died out years ago in Canada

Ottawa don't really exist as don't New York - have you seen them play a game?? - why do you feel that Chicago, Jacksonville and others will follow when the only real NA rugby league club is only there because it was backed by an Australian who grew up with the game, and was passionate enough and rich enough to chuck tens of $$$Millions away? As it stands you can't name me one single rich American investor in RL can you?

That we cling on to the hope that these far flung initiatives work shows how desperate we've become in efforts to keep the game alive.

But unless anyone can clearly demonstrate how the game can expand to achieve sustainable growth in the UK instead, then why not broaden out elsewhere, if people there want to throw money at it?

Nobody in North America is expanding the game, all that has happened is 25 lads who would normally ply their trade here are being shipped across there at intervals to play as Toronto Wolfpack to amuse an Aussie ex-pat. Nothing has been done in the last 4 years of their existence to actually expand the game itself there. If you allow these these "people" to keep buying players from here and sticking them in Ottawa, New York or Montreal jerseys then clubs here suffer.

London are a proper RL club and they develop players but they lost their place to this nonsense. Also do you not realise that Newcastle thunder have developed and expanded the game in the UK??? Look them up for a "demonstration" of how we can achieve "suitable growth". There's two REAL English clubs that are neither M62 we should have in Superleague.

When you talk about "People wanting to throw money at it" in the four years of "American "expansion" I have not heard from a single big North American investor because they do not exist. The only big investor I know who is looking to grow the game properly outside the M62 is Semor Kurdi. You heard of him???

Because chasing the N. American dream, which is to the detriment of the domestic game (player drain etc) COULD destroy the whole lot.
While we "replace" a UK based club with a N. American club (in name only), the UK club necessarily suffers.

If/when the time comes that the plug is pulled over there, ironically through lack of players and/ or lack of success, there will be nothing left of the game in the UK.

It's one hell of a gamble, something that only RL would consider doing in the way we are currently chasing the dream.

If there is so much brass around over there, we would be better placed in expanding SL by 2,3 or 4 clubs and seeing just what happens and at least then, there will still be a viable competition to fall back on.

This still wouldn't help the shortage of players but, it seems preferable to what we currently have.

We could even get rid of the loop fixtures

The TV deal is unplugged at the end of the 2021 season. The 2022 deal is being negotiated by Lenegan and Superleague, and it does not take a genius to work out that it won't include North Americans in any Superleague set up.

They are dead men walking but they aren't going to lay down and die. Toronto will see it out to the end of the current deal and Ottawa and New York will be pushed forward by Perez and Wilby (playing friendlies) for next year, even though they have no access to decent players from here unless they pay them a fortune. But all they both need to do is sign up anyone who will play Championship One level (a bigger playing pool and easier to draw players from) for a season. i.e. 2021.

They are clearly not going to lay down and die. They are going to make Superleague to be the ones to kill them off, and when Superleague do they'll call the SL bosses Dinosaurs and will go on insisting North American Rugby League was the future. What it is is a farce.

Lenegan, for all of his faults, is an astute businessman and if he and those negotiating the TV deal, believe there is anything close to a bright future over the pod, he would include them in the negotiations.
The one thin with the "new" overseas clubs is that they do appear to have plenty of cash, it's really just trying to work out what is possible in the future and how likely it is to succeed.
I dont think they are anywhere near ready to negotiate their own deal or to mop up the worlds "rugby" talent.
Any ambitious player would stay in the UK / Aus and want to play in world cups etc, even if it may be for less money.
Of course, there would then be a battle over the journeyman players, who usually come to SL for one last contract and you would expect that they could be tempted by big money (SBW being a good example) but, I think that you are getting well ahead of yourself here.

Yes "appear" but I only know for sure Aussie Argyle is a true $$Bilionaire, and that he really exists.....

As for Ottawa and New york who told you they were cashed up - wasn't Wilby and Perez was it? You still falling for all they say mate

I'd love for London or Gateshead to be a sustainable force in SL, but despite notable grassroots growth, it still seems unlikely.

London's more recent plight has more to do with their 2014 relegation, ownership and ground move than can just simply be attributed to Toronto's promotion.

If the game can't seeming grow in the UK, or even support a SL in the former stronghold of Cumbria, then we'd be naive not to look elsewhere - but I would trust/hope/daydream that the RFL provide sufficient scrutiny and risk analysis that inclusion of overseas clubs won't be detrimental to the game.